HYIP is a business of Trust. Its life depend on Trust

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HYIP is a business of Trust. Its life depend on Trust
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Posted by: highyieldprog

HYIP like most other established financial institutions (banks, saving, fiat currency etc) depends on trust and mass psychology (Hans Christien Andersen’s Nude King story). If once the trust and common mass perception are broken by rumors or no payment or sudden enlightenment because of education/information (even common fiat currency depend on trust to be accepted as payment tools), automatically the HYIP or financial institution or currency will fall apart. SG/NL is an example of good HYIP that know how important is trust for its survival and SG/NL admin always pays on time to its members until withdrawals time. So we have predicted before that SG/NL will face tough time during its first anniversary because of mass withdrawal. SG could pass this time but attacked by constant ddos which ruin its credibility. Most HYIPs admins don't know how important trust is for their HYIP survival and always break promises and cancel payment/postpone withdrawal or changing rules that only gives benefit to admin not members. Once this trust is broken, members will rush on their financial institution, where they keep their money, withdraw as much money as they can and in a short time the financial institution collapse. This trust weapon could also be used by those who dislike HYIP/financial freedom. They know the weakness of any financial institution including HYIP, they try to ruin good HYIP like SG/NL by ddos to lessen members' trust. And finally SG/NL collapse.

Highyieldbiz Team
http://www.highyieldbiz.com/

Posted by: Anonymous

It collapsed because it was a Ponzi. There were enough funds so that trading could have continued with or without investor confidence if they were telling the truth, investors were not a big enough mass to make a dent in the market's overall confidence, and DDoS attacks do not prevent trading.

It's simple really: There were no new spends coming in anymore to pay out the old investors. Why do you think they never went private?

And what about William's two prior Ponzis in 1989 and 1996. Offline, but called 'Pegasus Investments'. He was sued and found civilly liable and had to pay back the money both times then. And who knows how many times he did it and didn't get caught?

Rhys

Posted by: highyieldbiz

SG/NL could be half ponzi and half investment. Total ponzi could not survive 1 year. Even the best investment bank which have real investment could collapse if there is sudden mass withdrawal or rumors.

Highyieldbiz Team
http://www.highyieldbiz.com/

Posted by: awty

Quote:

Originally Posted by highyieldbiz

Total ponzi could not survive 1 year.

That's what I was thinking before. No longer.
Jeff

Posted by: Anonymous

I've seen well-laid Ponzis last well past a year. Even Ponzi's original Ponzi went well past a year.

Real world they can go for ten or twenty years, sometimes more. In cyberspace, we just don't know yet.

Rhys

Posted by: panter999

Quote:

Originally Posted by highyieldprog

HYIP like most other established financial institutions (banks, saving, fiat currency etc) depends on trust and mass psychology (Hans Christien Andersen’s Nude King story). If once the trust and common mass perception are broken by rumors or no payment or sudden enlightenment because of education/information (even common fiat currency depend on trust to be accepted as payment tools), automatically the HYIP or financial institution or currency will fall apart. SG/NL is an example of good HYIP that know how important is trust for its survival and SG/NL admin always pays on time to its members until withdrawals time. So we have predicted before that SG/NL will face tough time during its first anniversary because of mass withdrawal. SG could pass this time but attacked by constant ddos which ruin its credibility. Most HYIPs admins don't know how important trust is for their HYIP survival and always break promises and cancel payment/postpone withdrawal or changing rules that only gives benefit to admin not members. Once this trust is broken, members will rush on their financial institution, where they keep their money, withdraw as much money as they can and in a short time the financial institution collapse. This trust weapon could also be used by those who dislike HYIP/financial freedom. They know the weakness of any financial institution including HYIP, they try to ruin good HYIP like SG/NL by ddos to lessen members' trust. And finally SG/NL collapse.

Highyieldbiz Team
http://www.highyieldbiz.com/

Good post about confidence and trust!!

As for how long a hyip can last without being a ponzi...
I am in line with Awty.. more then a year..if enough new members keeps coming in with enough fresh new spends..
It can last quite some time with just some partial trading..

Regards,
Alex

Posted by: elementAU

But the best ones can turn into a ponzi when they begin to mature. There has to be some mechanism to stop that.

After NL, I just don't know what to look for.

Posted by: jaboles

Quote:

Originally Posted by elementAU

But the best ones can turn into a ponzi when they begin to mature. There has to be some mechanism to stop that.

I'm not sure it can be done. Usually, no matter how "legitimate" , the amount of money swooshing around the e-gold accounts eventually increases to a point where the admin's greed exceeds what he feels is his committment to the membership. HYIP is not even a zero sum game... if you don't consider the few HYIPs that generate external revenue and look at the business as a closed system, the net flow is outwards as gold gets consumed by e-gold fees and removed from the system by scammers.

Posted by: buildwealth

"HYIP like most other established financial institutions (banks, saving, fiat currency etc" revolve around trust only?? Nonsence!

hyip online has no DD of any relevance, Bogus for the most part; No DD is better then any online DD, and will cause less money to be lost. Most online losses are from Honest Admins., so only protection you have is yourself!

And what is this lumping of legitimate offline real financial entities with any online hyip?

banks, savings - and by that I assume you are meaning any offlilne investment/trading entity, and they are Bombarded with Protection never before seen or ever will be seen online, period!

You can't sell any stock investment/trading vehicle without advance scrutiny of any advertisement/promotion offline by Authorities; you have Audits; Disclosures; Financial Statements/Balance Sheets/Credit Reports all available Et Al. Full Disclosure offline (doesn't mean there isn't a crook every once in awhile or a dishonest or incompetent cpa firm, etc.); Financial reporting thereon daily in news media, radio, tv for ALL to see; Rules and Regulations established for the protection of the Investors before IT happens, etc. and I could go on and on.... and online hyip as Absolutely None of That.

That is why I am constantly astounded by the Idiots who "spend" (and that is about all it is) Huge Amounts with any Online Program, period! That same type of money can BUY a Trader, a Broker, Do It Yourself but placing that kind of money into the hands of an unknown admin., unknown program with NO disclosures or audits of any kind, or no regulated egency looking over their shoulders BEFORE the financal damage is done. Why would anyone in his right mind (and that may be the answer) "spend" such huge sums to any one or all online hyip (hype!) programs?

Where is the common sense financial planning, consulting, financial prudent management with Diversification not only into different Entities, but into different vehicles: e.g., forex stock, dow stocks, nasdaq stocks, s&p stock portfolios, bonds, CDs, fed Notes/instruments, options, futures, real estate (even real estate is usually done with an attorney or preferably Escrow company and providing Policy of Title Insurance for one's protection, etc.) I could go on and on - ALL of which are highly regulated and overseen by Authorities and others "expert" "Known" in their fields with at least a minimum degree of exposure, disclosure and enforcement. Not to mention a long long history of many many years vs a relative new online hyip practice with only a negative history/experience thus far for most.

Online you have no protection that is offered Offline. And little financial or legal recourse in it as well.

Posted by: buildwealth

Forgot to mention the first thing that came to my mind with comparing banks with hyips...

usa banks, at least, are fdic insured up to $100,000 per account! now wouldn't that have made a considerable difference for most hyip "spenders"? as are other investment vehicles offered similar protection - not to mention a world-wide buyer/seller market in full view of most investors et all.

One can insure many $100,000 account types amounting to Millions in insurance...even bond funds, fed note funds...and isn't PRESERVATION one of the most important key elements of any prudent financial portfolio?

try insuring your hyip.

Posted by: Chicopee

One question for Buildwealth.

I know you have posted numerous times how William was an honest man and how you trusted him even way back in the old Acorn days,

I also remember you posting that you have communicated with him even if only by email. So my question is ------------------------

Do you think and acknowledge that this was a ponzi.

I am interested in your opinion as you had recomended this program in the past.

Thank You

Posted by: buildwealth

if you read any of my posts closely you would see that i stated that ALL of my transactions with William over a period of two years, he was honest and fair, and more then generous. That is all the experience I have to go by, and that is my accurate description of it.

I don't know re: the ponzi etc. Like you should have, and I did, read several posts of those I was familiar with at the time, who actually were allowed to verify some REAL investments/trades.

I started out in TMA, and if tma was continued as it was layed out, and stayed that way, then my email from William would indicate they were only investing 25% of those funds, with 75% of the funds held in reserves. That being the case, TMA should never have had a problem, unless the programs being all under NL were Comingled...using tma reserves to bail out the veryhigh risk P. program, etc.

My policy was to invest in tma from day one - and I have received my hard monies back as anyone could do for himself by using any kind of common sense strategy before plunging off into Greed & Fear as far to many do. then whine and complain what is a lot their own fault.

tma was supposed to be secure. I don't know what happened,nor does anyone, so I'm waiting.

I new that sg was more at risk, almost 100% invested...i used P. only for cash flow because of the High Risk involved with a higher then usual REAL market can return 1.4% daily, and a high risk of having All monies fully invested - and as everyone should know or they have no business doing anything ONLINE, Trades are NOT fixed, they are Variables..the fluctuate from day to day, and even has LOSSES on some days. I do know that most traders were suffering over the Holidays and afterwards to even now.

as with any compounding - always pay something to yourself for your efforts and return on your money tied up - you earn it, you deserve it, so take it.

I have no complaints....but would like to get back my "anticipated", "expected" soft money on hold like everyone else.

Greed & Fear - will destroy the best laid plans.

hope that answers your question. ps: i seldom frequent forums, and I usually skip over quickly so always best to use my email address.

Posted by: Chicopee

Thank You for getting Back to me. I also would like all my funds from TMA. Hope that happens.

Thanks again

Posted by: highyieldbiz

Why did we lump (compare) hyip with banks or other financial institution because the main force that drive these financial instrument is the same : Faith (believe) or Trust. All of us even still use and deposit in the same banks (financial institutions) because we believe it is still have cash deposit back up although probably they are in great debt (trouble) because of maybe bad debt or huge derivative transaction (this is real case: search google with "gold derivative" keyword). Then you can make your own conclusion. So only faith and trust drives depositor or members to keep give money to any financial institution or pseudo ones like hyips. Faith and Trust is the only force that drives financial world whether with proof (ddu,fact)or not. Even all of us never could get first hand proof on all of many facts include financial reports or science theories. Even accounting audit could be manipulated (Remember past big AA firm collapse)

Posted by: memorex

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicopee

Thank You for getting Back to me. I also would like all my funds from TMA. Hope that happens.

Thanks again

Well I dont know how realistic this is but Mario quoted to me on the talk gold forum not long ago that it is looking like $1 per $1,000.00recovery i.e.for $10,000.00 invested= you get $10.00 so dont hold your breath
http://www.talkgold.com/forum/viewt...p?p=74339#74339

Quote:

mdegryse
Site Admin

Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 2570
Location: Belgium
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:23 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just like you memorex you know that this isn't a fast process.

About NL it doesn't look good its like 1$ on 1000$ back at the moment.

Mario
_________________
The ability to focus attention on important things is a
defining characteristic of intelligence. (Robert J. Shiller)

Posted by: elementAU

The question with NL is are the alphabets really involved..

Posted by: golddust

Yes, I agree. I heard NL fabricated that information, and I have heard that the abc's are involved.
If so, no one should hope for any return.

golddust

Posted by: elementAU

I'm past the point of worrying about a return - NL is a write off.
I'm just wondering if the abc's will involve us...

Posted by: golddust

Apparently ACC is involved. They would not have any jurisdiction over any investors unless they reside in AZ.
If the SEC is involved, they will probably be most interested in those that are actively seeking a refund, if US citizens. But in my opinion, the SEC can't do anything unless it can be proven that NL was/is in violation of SEC code. Until then, the SEC really does not have jurisdiction.
I am sure that NL attorneys would make this argument in order to retain control of the funds, if they are in the US.
So again, where is the money? Have the accounts been frozen? By what abc?
If it has, then what funds is William trading with?

Show me the money . . .

golddust

Posted by: highyieldbiz

Another top hyips that are in trust crisis are WG and FF. Watch how the distrust grow bigger and bigger if the admins do not handle it well by assuring their members. Usually the admins keep silent rather than try to calm down their members. FF has a better public relation than WG with its continous newsrelease. WG admin still silent with no news makes its members wondering what happened with WG.

Highyieldbiz
http://www.highyieldbiz.com/

Posted by: fsamec

I just think of the fact that I was on the phone with Mario just three weeks ago and everything was going fine. Now, he hasn't been seen or heard from in two weeks. What a difference a week makes.

Posted by: goldye

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsamec

I just think of the fact that I was on the phone with Mario just three weeks ago and everything was going fine. Now, he hasn't been seen or heard from in two weeks. What a difference a week makes.

With HYIP what a difference "an hour" makes. This arena is INSANE an you have to keep up with it each and every day, unfortunately.

Posted by: memorex

Yes this is the crazy world of HYIP, where nothing is certain, or what it seems.

The problems evolve under the cover of the internet and when it happens, everyone is looking for the immediate reason as to why, but it is normally long gone.

As it seems with the Weekly Gold Program it was most probably piggy backing on NL which was mainly a Ponzi scheme and hence the reason of Mario's disappearance from the HYIP scene

I dont think I will be far from the truth but as I said nothing is certain.

regards
memorex