And, from the dust after the DDOS attacks, and dead programs

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And, from the dust after the DDOS attacks, and dead programs
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Posted by: awty

Arrives, freelandopps. Fantastic site, came out of nowhere.

Coincidence?

Perhaps...

Advertising everywhere, a mile long writeup in e-told, references galore, just HAS to be the best thing since HYIPS.

Interesting...............

Maybe this is what I was looking for? (But not for the same reasons as some?)

Just musing,
Jeff

Posted by: awty

Suggest, for MANY reasons, that 'proper' DD on this one would appear to be critical. Like I've mentioned, I've only taken a short look at the site. But, many pieces would seem to fit.

I'll bet it's even complete with a smooth talking representative, available via im or chatroom, day or night, answers to questions honed to a fine edge.

And, I'll bet they're fully capable of dealing with evocash....

Just taking a wild guess...

Just my opinion,
Jeff

Posted by: Anonymous

Oh yes. But you believe them or you don't. They remain totally anonymous and give no information about how they generate returns. It's important, you see, to keep everything hidden. And they are, of course, men of their word.

I think we've all seen this one before.

Cheers -
Rhys

Posted by: BigDawg

If you want to say they are scammers then go ahead and say it. No need for all the cryptic language.

Posted by: Anonymous

Hi Bigdawg -

It's not cryptic language. Just a bit of analysis. Which is not a bad thing.

Cheers -
Rhys

Posted by: Deborah51

Not everybody here is as experienced as some of you seem to be.
TMA was the only HYIP I was in....I didn't even realize StarGame and Pegasus also run by William's family until a couple of months ago. Now, I find FreelandOpps, which looks pretty fantastic....beautifully designed site, apparently lots of security.

If you guys have reason to be suspicious, please clearly say why.
I don't understand your references to Evocash and the other remarks that have been made.

My husband is less experienced than I am.....and he is really excited about FreelandOpps....he has already gone to their chat room, and is talking about amounts of money he is going to deposit.

Please be more open. If there's more grief that can be spared in the HYIP arena, then do everyone a favor. Thanks.

Posted by: BigDawg

rhysem, I was directing my comments to Awty, sorry.

Awty, what in the heck does taking evocash have to do with anything? And if they have a guy that answers questions, that is a big red flag huh?

"Your opinion" is really sounding dumb on this one.

Posted by: Quartex

This beautiful site is just screaming out to me... "stay away".

Those that get in right now will probably win, but from others' losses. I can just see all those burned Nova Lights investors piling in, trying desperately to recoup. Oh yes, they don't "need" to bring us this opp, they just want to help us out.. How original.

90% a month? Oh purrrleassse !!

I give it until the end of April, maximum.

Gold City Games, anyone ?

(One for the seasoned HYIPers, that)

Posted by: BigDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quartex

This beautiful site is just screaming out to me... "stay away".

Those that get in right now will probably win, but from others' losses. I can just see all those burned Nova Lights investors piling in, trying desperately to recoup. Oh yes, they don't "need" to bring us this opp, they just want to help us out.. How original.

90% a month? Oh purrrleassse !!

I give it until the end of April, maximum.

Gold City Games, anyone ?

(One for the seasoned HYIPers, that)

Who are you Quartex? Speak up.

Posted by: awty

Okay, let me give this a shot. This is likely to be a long one, hope nobody minds...

Over the last 2-3 months, there have been 'attacks' against several 'major players' in the HYIP arena.

Short list? EGold, Netpay, Weeklygold, Bonded Investing, Nova Lights, and others, SOME of which I feel may be unsubstantiated, but that's another story.

Please note that Weeklygold and NL have forums that are frequented by many in the HYIP arena.

Suspiciously missing from the e-currency arena is Evocash, which was mentioned as possibly being used for both WeeklyGold and Nova Lights. I happen to find that interesting.

Also, suspiciously (in my mind, at least) missing was GWP, whose rates are close to those of NL, and who deals entirely in Evocash.

SOMEBODY/SOMETHING, I've been thinking for a while, has a purpose in trying to destroy other high profile programs.

WHY has been a question that's been bothering me for quite a while. It's been a real puzzle for me...

What I'm thinking has been done is a concerted effort by some to 'set the stage' for a 'new star'.

IF this is the case, there's a heck of a lot that's gone into it.
SPAMmers, to get the software onto PC's that are involved in the attack. The control structure, to direct those PC's.

And, it looks to me like the programs attacked have been the highest profile programs around, with name recognition, and active forums. In otherwords, the most people in a 'target' audience.

Why use the attacks? To destroy credibility. To shut down programs. So far, I have to admit, from what I've seen, confidence has been shaken for many.

I come back to the 'why'. There's a LOT of money floating around the HYIP arena. It seems possible that someone is looking to grab a BIG piece of the pie, by damaging the competition, and offering an attractive alternative.

I was THINKING that it was GWP.

My thinking may be completely off here, but it does seem to make sense to me.

I THINK I've found it. Something made SO attractive, with SUCH VISIBLE support, that it would seem to 'fit' with my thinking...

Looks like a big set up to me.

EVOCASH? Not sure if there's a connection.

But, as for a high profile 'launch', this one's right up there...
And, WHY do I consider 24 hour online support a red flag?

quick answer - What does a 24 hour support staff, always available to answer ANY question, (and probably very professionally, right from a script), have to do with MAKING MONEY FOR RETURNS?

Would SOMEONE please tell me, in terms that even I can understand, what a pretty site, and heavy hand holding have to do with MAKING MONEY? OK, lets look at it this way. Those support people have to be paid, the site, and the work on it, have to be paid for, right? WHO do YOU think is paying for all of that?
(Coming out of returns that COULD be being paid to the investors, right?) Thereby getting even higher returns.

But, HOW are they making money? WHO'S doing it?

Don't know?

Don't care?

(But that's ok, cause they're paying, right?)

Been down that road a few times myself....

What are you going to do on the day that they decide they've made enough, and suddenly disappear?

Track them down and prosecute? If the information isn't available to you now, do you expect it to be, later, if/when they decide they don't want to be found?

If I went through all of the effort to set the situation up, as is possibly going on, and looking to take as many funds as I possibly could, what would *I* do?

Build the prettiest, most attractive site ever, with so much investor 'hand holding' that people wouldn't even look behind the curtain (wizard of oz) to see what's there. Dazzle 'em. Make 'em think they're SO SPECIAL, that you rolled out the carpet for them.

Then, destroy the competition, so that what money is flowing in, has nowhere to go.

Then, make one heck of a flashy entrance, showing off the most attractive parts of the 'program'...

Build confidence over a few months - "Prove" it's REAL.
Build it so that even the BIG investors start to think 'hey, this works'. I've been with them a while, 'test' went fine, lets spend the big $$$ to MAKE the big $$$.

Then, when the program is at it's peak, leave. (But, make sure the site is completely automated before leaving). Besides, people LIKE automation, because 'they' FEEL they have CONTROL that way. (Of course, it just APPEARS that way).

Site automated? When time to leave, have time to get ahead, and cover tracks, possibly for a couple of weeks or a month before SERIOUS tracking starts, as things have been running 'normally'.....

Let me know if this makes sense to anyone... I've been thinking on this for a while...

Just my opinion,
Jeff

Posted by: BigDawg

Time will tell Jeff. Your conspiracy theory is just that, a theory at this point.

Posted by: awty

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg

Time will tell Jeff. Your conspiracy theory is just that, a theory at this point.

Yes, it is....

After spending 5 minutes looking around, I'm convinced. This is the 'big one' that's been set up over time.....

Just my opinion,
Jeff

Posted by: Deborah51

Again revealing my inexperience...what is/was GWP? What was/is their history?

Thanks....this is all very interesting.

Deborah

Posted by: awty

GWP = GetWeeklyProfit. I've been paid by them solidly for about 5 months now, if I recall correctly, but not sure how realistic they are.

HOPE that helps,
Jeff

Posted by: BigDawg

On the other hand they may be brilliant minds that have created an excellent opportunity. I know it is so easy to be skeptical in this day and age. You really have to be I guess. I just got burned badly by NL. I hate it.

Posted by: Anonymous

The timing and the secrecy are a little too pat.

Not to mention this crap about how it all started in the 1920s, and that the present group has been around for 60 years.

A-hem. Were that actually true, I assure you they wouldn't need your $20.

Somebody else, sadly, told me about a prime bank scam (this person thinks it's legit though, that's the sad part), that you can get into with a mere $10 mil. But only if you use your profits for humanitarian reasons. Uhh....anybody taken a look at World Bank and IMF policy recently?

I hate all of it. There are far too many scammers in this arena, I just wish people would stop handing over money to them. But I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

And after digging the bullet slug out of the door panel a couple of days ago - the leftover of that lot who wanted to 'talk to me about Nova Lights' that tried to break in - I'm not sure if it's even worth it to try to expose them anymore.

I'm coming to the conclusion that a lot of folks have some sort of compulsion to ritually sacrifice their money. That or total greed and complete unwillingness to consider reason. What else makes sense?

My 2 cents -
Rhys

Posted by: Quartex

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quartex

Who are you Quartex? Speak up.

Umm.. what's this got to do with (lack of) DD on Freelandopps ?

I don't see many people using their real names on here.

You obviously have some good DD on FLO, as you don't agree with my view. That's fine, but please share it with us so that we can come to a better understanding of how they will pay 90% a month.

As a burned investor, like most people, I will continue to ask tough questions of opps that want my money, and make no apologies for that. Let's keep to the facts, rather than personalities.

Thanks

Q

Posted by: BigDawg

I don't have a bit of DD on freelandopps. But I am not going to scream bloody scam on them. That's just not my style to attack without any proof. I only have $50 invested and I could really care less about losing it if that's what happens. The money I lost in NL is staggering so $50 to me is nothing.

I just think it is rude and obnoxious to jump all over the guys like some of you are doing.

Posted by: Anonymous

I think it's rude of them to hide behind all this secrecy and anonymity if they want my money.

Maybe it depends on how long you've been around this minefield called HYIP. But people who want your money and aren't forthcoming with answers are usually trouble.

I'm seriously looking at corp-fund myself right now. I guess it depends on whether you find porn objectionable - I don't - but it's a real company and a lot of thought has gone into the concept, plus there's a good degree of transparency as to where the money is being spent, how returns are generated, etc.

That makes me a whole lot more comfortable than some 'secret cartel'. And I guess I'd rather be thought rude than to give money to scammers, even if it is 'only' $50 - I don't have money to burn. Not saying freeland opps is a scam, just all the signs are pointing that way so far, and none are pointing against.

Rhys

Posted by: admin

Well I must say Rhys, thro this whole NL situation you were one of the only ones that stood firm in your beliefs and never swayed an inch. MANY changed their tune daily. It now appears apparent that NL turned into a massive ponzi after doing real trading initially and then only small amounts of trading towards the end, so you were right from your initial warning about NL, which now seems a long long time ago now

I respect you integrity Rhys =D>

PS> I have a DD chat session planned with OL the Admin of corp-fund next week. Maybe you can join me and make it a 3 way chat

Posted by: Anonymous

Hi Phil -

No need. I didn't save anybody any money or any grief. I wish I could have done.

Being right in a case like this is something of a pyhrric victory. I would have much preferred to be wrong.

Take care -
Rhys

Posted by: admin

Actually I think that a lot of HYIPers that have learnt a hell of a lot from this whole NL situation. I know that I have and hopefully it will make us all more mature and straight thinking when it comes to investing. AND Rhys you had a big part to play in the learning curve for everyone =D>

Quote:

No need

Now was this in regards to my compliments or about the 3 way chat P

Posted by: Anonymous

Oh, I am definitely up for the three way chat!

Cheers -
Rhys

Posted by: Dr. Mac

And as a matter of interest ...

Rhys - could you let us know how many posts and e-mails of apology you have received from all those people who slagged you off ... and then found out you were right all along!

You can also send me an e-mail with the figures of those who were lady and gentlemen enough to say sorry (this is also an attempt on my part to force you to e-mail me - three weeks with zero communication from you makes me think you have decided on an "ignore Dr. Mac" month :-s )

Take care ....

From : (believe it or not!) ... Dr. Mac!

Posted by: Anonymous

None Dr Mac and not expecting any. And the maintenance guy wouldn't even let me keep the bullet slug as a souvenir. I guess the police wanted to look at it or something. I fear I have nothing to show for any of it, save my personal life being pretty much trampled in all the hysteria. That hurts.

But yes I will write soon. (You do know how to translate Rhys-speak for 'soon', right?

)

Take care -
Rhys

Posted by: memorex

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhysem

I think it's rude of them to hide behind all this secrecy and anonymity if they want my money.

Its the old old story if you dont like something in a programs makeup move on they arent twisting your arm to join so why moan about something that you arent really interested in.

Quote:

Maybe it depends on how long you've been around this minefield called HYIP. But people who want your money and aren't forthcoming with answers are usually trouble.

There isnt one real program in this muck pile I have said this time and time again and if you think there is you are in cloud cuckoo land the only winners are the early birds and the rest lose out .

Quote:

I'm seriously looking at corp-fund myself right now. I guess it depends on whether you find porn objectionable - I don't - but it's a real company and a lot of thought has gone into the concept, plus there's a good degree of transparency as to where the money is being spent, how returns are generated, etc.

There you go you have found something you are comfortable with and the people in Freeland Opps think they are comfortable with their program so what is the argument here is it because they dont agree with your idea of comfort.

Quote:

That makes me a whole lot more comfortable than some 'secret cartel'. And I guess I'd rather be thought rude than to give money to scammers, even if it is 'only' $50 - I don't have money to burn. Not saying freeland opps is a scam, just all the signs are pointing that way so far, and none are pointing against.

Rhys

Well I think that there have been many signs of scams and I am not talking about this program although it is a possibility.And you are right in your concept in that you dont like to waste money and I feel no one does.
But to say you wil lose money is a statement that will follow you or I anywhere in this arena because no matter what you think you are investing in it is all tied up to what the admin say and express and also can make the punters believe but I will say this much no matter what they tell you it should be taken with a pinch of salt.
There has already been a very large scam incorporating pornographic sites with all the information supposedly upfront but again it was a scam.
What I am reall trying to say is this it makes no difference how much you find out about a program and how much you get to know the administration in the final showdown it is how long and how good the payments are and last for .
Nothing else matters because they are all some form of ponzi effected program no matter what we may try to read into them .

regards
memorex

Posted by: Anonymous

I agree Memorex we all have our own comfort levels in this.

But - I was answering BigDawg's post about 'rudeness' in asking questions of admins. Not 'moaning' about freeland.

I know all programmes fail at some point, but most of us try to do the best we can to find the ones we can make a bit of profit from, hopefully not at the other guy's expense before the doors close.

I guess I don't believe that all of them are 100% Ponzi, but maybe they are. Which is probably why I mostly stick to Forex.

Cheers -
Rhys

Posted by: awty

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhysem

And after digging the bullet slug out of the door panel a couple of days ago - the leftover of that lot who wanted to 'talk to me about Nova Lights' that tried to break in - I'm not sure if it's even worth it to try to expose them anymore.

OMG, Rhys!? Hopefully all is well as it can be there. HOPE you're OK!!!

Jeff

Posted by: Anonymous

Hi Jeff -

I'd be lying if I said I was fine but the building has good security, they didn't get in and I spent many years on active duty in this playground called Belfast. So I've seen worse but yes, it was a bit of a shock to say the least. And I expect there's somebody else's blood they're out for this week, or maybe it's calmed down enough that they aren't out for blood anymore at all. This whole thing has been sheer madness

We can but hope that it will calm down for everyone.

Take care -
Rhys

Posted by: Dr. Mac

But yes I will write soon. (You do know how to translate Rhys-speak for 'soon', right?

You never change!

I don't know what I'm going to do with you !!!!! [-o<

"Patience is a virtue ...
Virtue is a grace ... "

Dr. Mac

Posted by: awty

For me, the bottom line? Emotion and finance can make for a VERY volatile mix. And, in an emotional state, it's easy to 'justify' things that, on another day, might not seem to be the same.
(Personal experience, and too darned much of it!)

Something I wrote a little while ago, don't know if it will help, but I threw a few thoughts down...

http://www.valasek.org/hyip.htm

There are NOT any viruses, nasty code, or pop ups. ALL of which I DESPISE with a passion! It's just ranting on my part.

Rhys, I do believe that I owe you an apology for being 'short' with you a while back. I was operating based on 'assumptions', some gathered from others, and not, as I should, by checking out things myself. I'm sorry. My perceptions at that point were wrong, and I'm glad they were. It's a pleasure working with you, and I hope things are going OK.

And, I'se seen the first pictures (Ultrasound) of my grandchild yesterday. That kind of puts things into perspective for me -
Family first, THEN other things. That's what works best for me.

It's SO easy to get wrapped up in the latest 'issues', with some VERY emotional responses.

I DO try to 'ACT', rather than 'REACT', but, I have to admit, it's NOT easy at times.

Just my opinion,
Jeff

Posted by: Anonymous

Apology accepted Jeff - I've been accused of being everything from the mad DDoSer to Jack the Ripper the past few weeks and you just seemed stressed, not awful or anything.

Great article, btw - thanks for posting it. I think it might want a link from the Resources and Info page here if you don't mind.

Take care -
Rhys

Posted by: memorex

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhysem

Hi Jeff -

I'd be lying if I said I was fine but the building has good security, they didn't get in and I spent many years on active duty in this playground called Belfast.
Take care -
Rhys

If you are an ex -serviceman from the streets of Belfast we have a common ground Rhysem.
I was out that way myself in the early 60's and I lived in Craigie Estate.
And in 1970 I was Attached to the Army & Special forces going round Ireland in an offshore Launch checking all boats for Arms.
We used to ration up from the Maidstone(prison ship) in Belfast harbour every now and again
Those were hairy scary days and I am glad I am out of it now,It was a guantlet run and you never knew what was coming next.

regards
memorex

Posted by: droesparky

Well Id bet the X NL group has lots of money to set up a new auto run site. They may even have made a deal with the devil just recently.

Dont know where all that money is going to come from, most of us wiped out by NL will not have any new stuff to put in.

I for one wont give any more of my money away, no matter how big I dream. I truly believe now that they are all scams.

Posted by: BigDawg

Freelandopps has fixed their log in problems. I can now log in using I.E. 6 which I was unable to do before. I was using Mozilla to get in their site before today.

I went to their chatroom, it has voice chat. Pretty happy bunch of guys in there.

The payout for the 4 week plan is 28 days. 4 weeks of 7 days. 90% in 28 days. They also have 1 week, 2 week and I think 3 week plans. But I went for the 4 week thing. My $50 investment will be returned along with $45(90%).

Posted by: BigDawg

I just noticed there is a freelandopps folder here at HYIPS. I guess my last post is in the wrong folder.

Posted by: elementAU

I try to figure out what I have learned after any loss. After NL I just don't see how this works for anyone over the long term.

I think I am out of here as well.

Posted by: GoldVentures

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg

I only have $50 invested and I could really care less about losing it if that's what happens.

I can almost guarantee you won't lose it. It is much too early. With the amount of time and effort that has gone into to creating the site and security, they would at least 'salt the mine' (pay out of their own funds) as long as needed to build a larger member base.

Further thoughts:

Yes, the FLO payout is high, but how much will they really payout taking compounding into consideration? People who put in $100 or $200 are likely going to let most of it ride, at least for a while.

Some will take their $100 or $200 out and let it ride from there. Six months later they will have $5-$10k with full compounding. People will start withdrawing at different times, but once the amount gets high enough, there will be regular withdrawls. FLO would know that from the outset. They even state it in their forum. They are expecting it. Six months isn't very long to build up a large member base, and get enough spends in to pay for the cost of setting it up as well as the cost of all withdrawals up to that point.

Also, why would anyone risk larger amounts, when you could risk half the amount and almost double in 4 weeks? FLO has stated they intend to run for the next sixty years (even if in a private form). It makes more sense to risk less. If they do skip town early, you lose less (if at all). If they stick around, you will reach the max anyway as it isn't that high ($12k per day combining regular and compounding compared to SG's rumoured $1M). So why risk big $$?

Xavier states that no one (or at least very few) will max FLO. That's because most will make some big withdrawals for a new car, house, boat, computer, stereo, trip, college fund, emergency etc.

Back on Track and NL lasted around two years and they both had names and addresses that are verifiable and real live people you could meet. With FLO we have nothing in terms of contact details, but at least threats of going to the SEC won't affect the program. What could the SEC (or any government for that matter) do? There can also be no run on the bank, since they return principal with interest at the end of every term whether it be 1 week or 4. With multiple servers (if true) then network/software attacks can be dealt with.

If there is a multi-generation opportunity behind them and they are already wealthy, wouldn't you feel more comfortable dealing with them than with someone who has never handled large sums of money? True, that is no guarantee they won't run with your gold.

They say they want to offer this opportunity because they see so many other scams out there. Isn't that the same intent that Awty has in hiring traders and starting a program 'among us'? To offer a safe and reliable opportunity?

If you could dream up a safe and secure program, wouldn't it look a lot like FLO? If not, what would it look like? Take into consideration the failures in the HYIP world of the last year as you dream up your design.

Posted by: betrdanevr

Rhys,

That's unconscionable that somebody came after you with a bullet!

I think it's also unconscionable that there are idiots on TG talking about violence when it comes to William.

The crazies about when money gets involved.

Terri

Posted by: betrdanevr

I just got this e-mail from SteadyGoldHYIP. Looks like another fallout from the NL debacle:

Quote:

SteadyGoldHYIP closed : Partial refunds will be sent to active members

Started -> Sep-2003
Ended -> Feb-2004

CASE 1 -> If the total amount of payouts received by
member is equal to or more than the principal,
then the member WILL NOT receive any refund.

Case 2 -> However, if the total amount of payouts
received by member is less than the
principal, then the member WILL receive refund.

Case 3 -> Rating sites for whom WE had invested on
their behalf will NOT receive ANY refund.

Principal = Amount invested - 2% GoldCreator admin fee
Refund amount = Principal - Payouts received.

Thanks for your patience

Best Wishes,
Marco - Admin
http://www.SteadyGoldHYIP.tk

Posted by: Maimu

Quote:

Originally Posted by awty

Okay, let me give this a shot. This is likely to be a long one, hope nobody minds...
..............deleted........
Just my opinion,
Jeff

Dear Jeff
I am pretty new in hyip, found this Forum, was curious about Pureinvestor, Foreign-Fund and Freeland Oops, and then your post, very good. I wish that many newbies could read this.
For the first time I felt I was reading something 'real', even if you took a suspicious angle, OK with me.
The most important thing: your post made ME think again, thank you very much.

Posted by: dariusz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg

I don't have a bit of DD on freelandopps. But I am not going to scream bloody scam on them. That's just not my style to attack without any proof. I only have $50 invested and I could really care less about losing it if that's what happens. The money I lost in NL is staggering so $50 to me is nothing.

I just think it is rude and obnoxious to jump all over the guys like some of you are doing.

BD don't You think that 90% return is enough proof to call it a SCAM?

Do You think You would run the program if You knew the way of earning 90% per month? Think for a moment. It is so obvious.

Posted by: memorex

Quote:

Originally Posted by dariusz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg

BD don't You think that 90% return is enough proof to call it a SCAM?

Do You think You would run the program if You knew the way of earning 90% per month? Think for a moment. It is so obvious.

You could be right it could be a scam but you are not really telling anyone anything which is fresh news .
As for your assumption that the running of a program because the returns are high is not bonafide.
Well if you are tradingin really ,well realistically , you need lots of funding ,the more the merrier, the bigger the pot, the higher the returns.
An DD, what a joke you cant tell me that is of any use, they can give all this information and still screw you to the deck.

Its all down to timing,luck and being able to get your initial spend back and a little profit and the longer it goes the more you are in profit.
I for one do not believe there is one program in this arena that is actually a bonafide trading company .
As far as I am concerned there is none that can give me viable proof that they are actually making the returns they say they are making through trading.
Freeland Opps has been tagged so has the Foreign Fund (Srategio Investments have already collapsed )
The both programs above are still paying to date whether they will last I dont know.
But a scam is only a scam when they run with the investors money until then it is a dubious or maybe dodgy program but can still only be supposition.
But I doubt whether any HYIP program will last more than a year or tops 15 months the NL scenario was an exception and a well managed ponzi scheme

Posted by: dariusz

Quote:

Originally Posted by memorex

Quote:

Originally Posted by dariusz

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg

BD don't You think that 90% return is enough proof to call it a SCAM?

Do You think You would run the program if You knew the way of earning 90% per month? Think for a moment. It is so obvious.

You could be right it could be a scam but you are not really telling anyone anything which is fresh news .

Eagle,

I haven't understood the point of Your reply.

My point was that I don't need any "fresh news" as You called them if I am sure that program is pure ponzi.
People saw many programs like this many times and still asking same questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by memorex

As for your assumption that the running of a program because the returns are high is not bonafide.
Well if you are tradingin really ,well realistically , you need lots of funding ,the more the merrier, the bigger the pot, the higher the returns.

What is "bonafide"?

IMO You are right and wrong Eagle. Yes if You are trading You need a lot of funds. If You were such man would You seek those funds online? Of course not. Because if You were so genuine trader You would attract millions quickly (and not from people who can spent $5).

Quote:

Originally Posted by memorex

An DD, what a joke you cant tell me that is of any use, they can give all this information and still screw you to the deck.

It depends on what do You consider as DD?

Quote:

Originally Posted by memorex

Its all down to timing,luck and being able to get your initial spend back and a little profit and the longer it goes the more you are in profit.
I for one do not believe there is one program in this arena that is actually a bonafide trading company .

As far as I am concerned there is none that can give me viable proof that they are actually making the returns they say they are making through trading.
Freeland Opps has been tagged so has the Foreign Fund (Srategio Investments have already collapsed )
The both programs above are still paying to date whether they will last I dont know.
But a scam is only a scam when they run with the investors money until then it is a dubious or maybe dodgy program but can still only be supposition.
But I doubt whether any HYIP program will last more than a year or tops 15 months the NL scenario was an exception and a well managed ponzi scheme

May I make more accurate myself are You talking about High Yield International Ponzis or about Hyigh Yield Investment Programs? Because those mentioned above (except SI because I don't know it) are not investment programs. Period.

Posted by: memorex

In the simplest of terms you asked that because of the high rate of returns.

Quote:

BD don't You think that 90% return is enough proof to call it a SCAM?

Do You think You would run the program if You knew the way of earning 90% per month? Think for a moment. It is so obvious.

My point is no one can tell whether any program is a scam, until it actually scams anyone.

(Scam = a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation ).

It isnt obvious although it may look and point that way to many.

To Class them as an illegal Ponzi is another matter and is a more descriptive view possibly a truer statement

As we should, already know, that no legal investment firm ,in their right mind , would dabble in such low monetary values.

They would not have any credibility in the investment world if they accepted some of the size of investments that we talk about in HYIP.

i.e.Minimum $1.00 and up or even $25.00 in the case of Freeland Opps.

Even the Penny Stock market, is more costly than some of the HYIP , so called trading superstars.

You only need to read my posts from the past to decipher, what my thoughts on this arena are.

I have stated before this is a fantasy area of the lower classes investment dream, there is no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.

And on the other hand a Playground for the more affluent that can afford to gamble and where to lose is not an issue,

The only way people make money here is to gamble, by getting in early enough, to redeem their initial spend.

Then, if it is still ongoing, get a little more profit out, before it closes as It will no doubt, do at sometime, or other, in the near future.

And if we are too worried about any program being a scam as you and many others I may add, put it .

Then my advice to all concerned is they may be better off to go back to the old system and use a Bank, if they want a more level playing field or security.

As for Investment firms generating funds over the internet this done on a daily basis by top notch Investment firms but it is not done in the HYIP arena.

Because the initial startup, is way beyond many peoples means here and we are talking about here in HYIP not in the real investment world where reality kicks in.

Now we come to the word (Bonafide :made with earnest intent : SINCERE
: neither specious nor counterfeit : GENUINE
synonym AUTHENTIC )

And lastly DD where in any of this muck pile have you been able to get a true reflection of any programs intentions, background or how they make their returns.

When you do please let me know,I will only be to glad to listen to program administrator .

I have been through this time and time again and you never get the truth.

Do you know why, I will tell you anyway, it is because they are not doing what they say they are doing .

This is why they collapse , because how many real investment collapse like HYIP, oH Sure, it happens, there are a few, but if they collapsed like HYIP.

The world economy would collapse and inflation would be running at an all time high .

Utter chaos would prevail with blackmarket operations popping up in every over extended countries

similar exchange rates would be common practice like the Italian LIRA or Argentinian PESO.

Any way there you have it I hope you can understand my reasoning and answer this time .

regards
memorex

Posted by: BigDawg

High Yielders Club paid out 8% a day from October to the last week of January, some got paid into early Feb. HYC was a joke of a website with horrible software with constant problems, but paid out like clockwork for over 3 months. It looks like it collapsed because people figured out a way to generate over 600% profit in 50 days by using a complicated compounding method by opening multiple batches and transferring form batch to batch. HYC was actually paying these folks these huge returns.

Now if a shoddy operation like HYC can pay ridiculous rates for over 3 months. How long can a well run operation that pays much less stay in business?

I think a lot of you guys who cry scam just need to run away from HYIP, you aren't capable to handle it IMO.

Posted by: memorex

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg

High Yielders Club paid out 8% a day from October to the last week of January, some got paid into early Feb. HYC was a joke of a website with horrible software with constant problems, but paid out like clockwork for over 3 months. It looks like it collapsed because people figured out a way to generate over 600% profit in 50 days by using a complicated compounding method by opening multiple batches and transferring form batch to batch. HYC was actually paying these folks these huge returns.

Now if a shoddy operation like HYC can pay ridiculous rates for over 3 months. How long can a well run operation that pays much less stay in business?

I think a lot of you guys who cry scam just need to run away from HYIP, you aren't capable to handle it IMO.

Come on Big Dawg ,

I have already said what happens in this area so stop pushing for an argument.

We are all well aware of the HYC and their fortune or misfortune .

There are always going to be the ones that cry or shout scam, My advice is to just get on with what you are doing.
And dont worry about them, if you are making money they can either partake and make a bit too, or stay out.
This is a no win ARGUMENT as I see it,some do and some dont take risks ,thats the way of the world .

REGARDS
MEMOREX