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I've had enough of the CRAP!

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Posted by: awty

I have spent some amount of time here at hphyips. It WAS a nice little place for open discussions.

Now, it's turned into personal attack, after personal attack, with exteme emphasis on personalities, NOT HYIPs, and NOT good, intelligent discussions.

If you'd like to discuss a program and it's merits, fine.

If you want to make personal attacks, please, TAKE IT ELSEWHERE.

I'm though dealing with this crap.

I appreciate open, honest discussion about HYIPs, NOT people!

Anybody have ANY good reasons why I should stay?

I can't find any. Not anymore.

I'd really like to help, but things are SO darn fragmented.

(And, Phil, and the other mods, this is NOT due to you, you've all been a pleasure working with, I've enjoyed my time here, for the most part, up until the last week. Nor am I going to point a finger at any particular person, that's been done enough.)

I have appreciated my time here, and many of the people that I have met.

Unfortunately, money is apparently too 'touchy' a subject for some.

Seems like it's time for me to head down my own road.

I've made many mistakes, and to those whom I have offended, I'd like to apologize.

I'll have a decision on whether or not to continue as a mod here in the next few days. Right now, I see NO reason to deal with the CRAP being posted here.

(And, yes, I'm guilty of it as well...)

I'm sorely tempted to start deleting posts left and right, but this is not my forum, and I don't agree with doing that anyway. I would much prefer to have people 'moderate' themselves, BUT......
That's NOT happening here, folks! (DUH!!!)

I FEEL like my home has been wrecked.

People who had become friends, with many of the same values and opinions, are now at each other's throats. All I can say is, hope it's worth it to you, it hasn't been for me. I've most likely ruined some good friendships, with some good people.

I've been there (Negative, falling into REACTING to the 'latest') too much lately as well. I've allowed some of this to affect my relationships with people, mostly in a negative way.

I like to act, rather than react, but I'm finding myself reacting too much. Time for me to make some changes.


Sorry if I'm cranky, but I'm finding this situation totally intolerable.

I'd like to discuss things openly and honestly, without personal CRAP being brought it.

Ain't happening. And, I can foresee after things die down, things may get back to 'normal'. UNTIL... Money, once again, comes between people. I've seen a few of those 'cycles' already.

For the people that have asked me to help, I apologize. I cannot, in good conscience, continue to be a part of this 'attackfest', and I'm doing my best NOT to 'take sides', and just deal with ***THE ACTUAL ** facts, NOT *XXX's* facts, or *YYY's* facts.

I'm seeing an AWFUL lot of manipulation, accusations, suppositions, backstabbing, friendship 'gone bad', and so many more 'problems' that it's making my head spin, and I don't see a reason to have to deal with it. IS there a good reason to deal with it?

Crudely? Something I've told several friends, and also my children. If you want to take yourself, or others, down, that's YOUR choice, and YOUR business. But, I'm not going to be supportive, and I DARNED well am NOT going to watch, it hurts too much. And, don't come crying to me asking for help, if you get hurt doing it, or ask me to help pick up YOUR mess. You get what you pay for.

*Added - edited*
By the way, I've got enough messes that I've created, and have to deal with in my own personal life. Many of those, *I* made the mess, and *I* will have to clean it up. Fair is fair, my rules...
*end edit*
Sick of it,
Jeff


Posted by: admin

Hi Jeff

I feel exactly the same way. I too am tired of all the scammers, hackers, thief's and liars and want to get out and resume a "normal" life outside HYIPs but I have responsibilities to see the NL situation thro first and also to AG, S1P and HpHYIPs members to do what I can do

I am not sure what happened, I am just about to go out but I will send you an e-mail later

Best of Luck,

Phil


Posted by: Anonymous

I think we're all kind of in the same place here. I remember some months ago JB saying that if Nova Lights ever crashed...that we hadn't seen ugliness yet compared to what that would bring.

He was right. But so is Awty, who pointed out that money is just too explosive a subject for some (many? most even?) people, no matter which HYIP it is crashing and burning this week.

It saddens me to see investors attacking other investors, it saddens me to see this not as a community but as a 'me first and to hell with you' no matter who's saying it.

Divide and conquer. Aside from the personal damage, it is playing right smack into the scammers' hands.

I remember an old old saying, went something like: If I am not for me, then who will be? But if I am only for myself, what am I?

It may apply here. I don't know anymore.

For what it's worth -
Rhys


Posted by: awty

It's not so much what happened. It's just that I see no reason to deal with the CRAP that people are throwing. (And, yes, I'm guilty as well, my apologies).

Rhys - Yes, I see the 'focus' on the actual problems disappearing as well, 'under' the emotional, personal responses.

And, yes, I would LOVE to help the NL investors as well. Myself, I'm in profit. While I'd LIKE to see some of what was showing in my account, I do think others should take precedence. IS there even a fair way to do that?

Realistically?

Well, I would LIKE to see a full accounting of NL funds.
In my opinion, NOT likely to happen, for a variety of reasons.

Then, have that spread out to all investors via a percentage basis.

ANY 'SOLUTION" is bound to be argued about to no end.

IS there ANY possibility of formulating a strategy that is 'supportable' by many investors, particularly the 'small ones', that are, in my opinion, probably most in need? How can I best help?

I THOUGHT that a reasonable strategy had been formulated. However, there appear to be efforts underway to undermine the effectiveness of ANY measures (Not surprising, methinks).

MANY personal interests involved.

However, is there a CLEAR, SOLID plan that we can all get behind?

INTELLIGENT, CONSIDERED OPINIONS WELCOME!!!

As for myself?
-I don't believe that we can count on NL administration to be as upfront and honest as I, for one, would like to see.
-That being said, an 'independent 3rd party' would be my personal choice.
-THAT being said, it seems that we might be able to work out a fair offer with using Scott Hare as a lawyer, and Spinelli Corp as in investigator.

That won't come cheap. Is it worth it? Seems to me it depends on the funds available. And, without a full, TRUSTWORTHTY accounting, I don't think that most (with a VERY vew exceptions), know. How to get that accounting? Well, using an independent 3rd party.

Vicious circle, perhaps?

Well, if the investors are willing to pitch in, I think it's possible. The risks, as seen by me (NOT all-inclusive, obviously)-
That we may end up spending a lot, to get a little.

The risks of NOT doing anything?

That NL may choose to pay what they want, without having to account for ANY funds, and the real truth of the situation may never be known.

The ACC? Don't know. Possibility, perhaps? Unknown, at least by me...

And, at the end of the road?
If it's found that there were/are substantial misrepresentations, by involved parties? That would APPEAR to me to be fraud, and should, in my opinion, be dealt with as such.

(Personal note/opinion: Which is worse? The guy who steals a wallet (violent crime) to get $20 to feed his family, and goes to jail for a year, or someone who takes millions from many, takes their hopes and dreams, and gets a slap on the wrist? Something about that just doesn't sit right with me, and it's NOT just NL I'm talking about, basically financial schemes that defraud millions, and steal, not just wallets, but lives and dreams).


Suggestions appreciated, attacks ignored, and just my opinion,

Jeff


Posted by: memorex

Look my friend and fellow Moderator, I hope I can call you that, as I have felt you were in that category, even though we have never actually met. I have and will always, appreciate your ongoing support. I hope you will carry on in the future, as you have done so in the past, with all the many additional titbits, of pertinent information and musings, that you contribute, to this the HPhyip forum.

All the HPhyip forum Moderators are a team and a team must stick together, through thick and thin ,no matter, what may happen, it is why we do, what we do best and that is control the forum to the best of our abilities.

So please, do not be hasty with your decision ,regarding this insipid time we are experiencing in the HYIP arena.
Always remember, that we if we are united, we will not only show a more supportive front, but we will be stronger and harder to break down , in these desperate times, that we are experiencing now .

No one has said Life is easy and I can understand where you are coming from, regards the backbiting and *****ing, just
remember this, if it is at all possible, to help out one poor unenlightened investor , in this area, it is a bonus in my books. There are and will always be, people out there , that have no other ulterior motive, but to discredit and demean people ,in all walks of life.

we are only here to make certain that they do not do it on our forum? remember it is our forum!! and it is not and will not belong to the mudslingers because I for one wont let it happen not if I can help it anyway.

Lets not get too interested in the mudslingers ,(sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me) I remember my father saying this to me once, so lets concentrate on the job in hand. Trying to make money , in this, what I call Scammers Alley , or (M IYL), because it isn't easy to do that here at anytime, and it is becoming more and more difficult, as the years pass by, with all the fraudsters that are around.

Anyway , Awty, I hope you can reconsider your choice and we can see you bouncing back into your rightful place, on the HPhyip forum.
Whatever you decide, I am sure it will be right for you , may you live long and prosper .

regards
memorex
.


Posted by: panter999

I also hope that you will be able to come to the conclution that you can not be without us Awty

Just kidding...
Maybe you can do what I do sometimes.....
I see posts that makes me angry..and I type and type and type..
But most of the times..I will not post what I typed..because by then I managed to calm down..and so..I just hit the backbutton

I woulld be very dissapointed if a very close friend of mine turned into a scammer or posted personal attacks only.
But watching all the mudpostings in a few forums doesnt really do anything for me anymore....I just don`t care..
So..I am taking it as an education..
You get to know who is who

Well.. just hoping you will be arround Jeff..
Take care!

Regards,
Alex


Posted by: PLT

Hi Jeff, just want to add my name to the list of people who would like you to stick around anyway, we need as much sanity as possible around here.

Regards,

Paul


Posted by: golddust

In all walks of life, not just in HYIP, there are idiots, scammers, liars, cheats and fools. No matter what path one walks, it is likely that these sorts will stumble in your way. It is not your duty to pick them up and help them. These sorts would rather be wrong, beguiling and mean spirited, than accept a thought or fact that could disorient their ideology and perhaps the wholeness of their being. Their paths have been truncated by frustration blamed on other people or things. These sorts cannot generally be helped – their malfeasance is self destructive, reinforcing low self-esteem and perpetuating their weaknesses.

If you can invoke positive change, take from that the gratitude you can for the goodwill and knowledge you have imparted. If you cannot, certainly destiny has provided that outcome.

For these kinds of people are meaningful on the path. The temptation to harmonize with them is natural and difficult to pass. In the trying, you are lifted to a higher level of consciousness. Affirm your goodness, strengthen your convictions, but waste not your wisdom on those who are not true to your path. They will continue to cause disharmony in the path of others, as this is their way.

Your path will be enriched by both enlightened people seeking opinion and truth, and those whose disharmony strengthens your compassion and intolerance to their ways. Do not let intolerance change your direction; keep the course knowing each step brings you opportunities to converge with others on a path to knowledge strengthened by conflicts, challenges and stumbling self-defeating bozos.

Such is the wisdom of life and a life with wisdom.


Good luck in whatever you do Awty,

golddust


Posted by: RPM

Awty, a real shame to see good people getting dragged down.

Sadly the internet is a harsh 'world'. More so in this little melting pot we like to call HYIPs.

The reality is that the vast majority of hyips have caused people to lose money, either due to their own lack of thought, the recommendation of others or simply through plain old bad luck.

What comes next is really inevitable as it is human nature.... people look for someone to blame before they look to themselves. They get *****y, they get nasty and in some cases go completely overboard with all manner of abuse and accusations.

I suspect the problem is compounded by the anonymous nature of the internet.

I often have found myself asking the same old question when reading various posts (here and in many other forums and lists).......'would this person talk to me in this manner in person?'
The answer of course is "no". In person they would have the ability to better judge my personality. They would (like with everything else in the real world) understand that actions have consequences.
On the net though, what consequences are there?

Dont misunderstand my comments there, I dont mean to suggest that I am big, tough or violent....merely that most people almost always act with a degree of decency in person that for some absurd reason vanishes the moment they arrive at their trusty keyboard.

I recall some years ago I was on a mailing list for a social group. One guy in particular had to be the most obnoxious crettin I ever had the misfortune of encountering anywhere. His contributions were never positive and seemed always to be intended to create friction. Many months later I actually met this guy.
I had expected someone akin to a hobbitt yet found myself face to face with this huge guy who would not have looked out of place wandering the streets of any gangland.
We talked and I found myself wondering if this was even the same guy.....he was elloquent, knowledgable, talkative and above all, non confrontational. Today, 6 years on and we are still good friends.
I guess the moral of that story is that people are not always what they seem out there in cyber world...in person they are usually very different and it is sometimes worth looking above all the crap in the hope that one day you may start to find the real person behind the facade.

Getting back to the subject of HYIPs.

This is far and away the best group of people, collection of relevant information and source of discussion I have found in years of being involved in hyips.

The devotion to finding the good amongst the multitude of bad is amazing but, as the latest example with NL shows, no amount of DD, monitoring or reporting can guarantee positive outcomes.

If I had one suggestion (or a group of them :P) that might perhaps curb some of the disquiet it would be this.

Almost all of the discussion about new, fledgling or good programs here is positive, informative and useful i.e. without crap.
The crap seems to stem from discussions about failed, failing, dead programs. People opinions differ, theories abound and before you know it an argument is brewing.

Maybe it is worth considering the merit of continuing open discussion on failed or dead programs. Such programs are DEAD. No amount of arguing (here or anywhere else) is ever going to bring them or your money back and quite frankly I suspect if all the people who join these arguments devoted an equal amount of energy to actually bringing down the perpertrators of these scams the result may be a lot more positive.
Face it....the arguments go on but invariably there is one participant missing....that being the person who actually has the money!!

My rant finished.

I havent been here long but I've been around the hyip scene a lot longer.

From what Ive read you seem like a good person Awty. Dont let yourself be dragged down.


Posted by: Anonymous

Hi RPM -

Unfortunately one of the things Awty and I have both learned is that people can be even more vicious offline than their online persona would appear through the NL scandal.

And that should not be happening at all.

I, too, would like to see that come to a complete halt and to see people behave better here.

We can but hope.

Rhys


Posted by: BigDawg

All I want is my original NL depsosits back. I don't want any profit, interest, just a simple refund. Is that too much to ask? I think I'm being reasonable.


Posted by: memorex

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDawg
All I want is my original NL depsosits back. I don't want any profit, interest, just a simple refund. Is that too much to ask? I think I'm being reasonable.


Big Dawg

What is your point of placing this post here, as far as I can see, it is out of context,off topic and should be in the NL folder or a relevant folder about NL.
It has Nothing to do with Awty's leaving the forum and the HYIP arena.
Please try to adhere, to placing posts in the relevant folders, other wise, it may be construed ,as not giving a hoot for anyone else, but your self.

regards
memorex


Posted by: awty

Hanging in there, and I'll be fine. I DO think that together, we can make a difference. While I may be a bit 'jaded', especially lately, I do believe that there ARE things that can work. Caper is thinking along the same lines that I was last year about this time.

Right now, I'm working on a little project of my own, working on learning Forex trading. Many ups and downs, but more ups lately. I took over my managed account yesterday, and have been kind of busy with it. With only a month, of, admittedly, from what I gather, 'crazy' trading times, I'm actually starting to grow my account. I would assume that the rate is NOT sustainable, but worth looking into. (I have been making 1%/day plus for the last few days, so, maybe say 5-10%/month MIGHT be sustainable?)

Oh, and all my 'theories' about the DDOS attacks, etc?
DOn't know how long it will last, but have been paid a few times by what I figure is a 'plan'.

Hanging in there, still wanting to make a difference,
I may change direction, but I don't give up. There IS a way. If there isn't one already, well, may have to build it.

Just my opinion,
Jeff


Posted by: BigDawg

memorex, was it really necessary to jump all over my back? My post is to Jeff, telling him my true intentions here, as I just called Fred a ******* the other day. Which probably contributed to Jeff wanting to leave.


Posted by: betrdanevr

Quote:
I FEEL like my home has been wrecked.


That makes two of us, Jeff.

Terri


Posted by: RPM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhysem
Hi RPM -

Unfortunately one of the things Awty and I have both learned is that people can be even more vicious offline than their online persona would appear through the NL scandal.

And that should not be happening at all.

I, too, would like to see that come to a complete halt and to see people behave better here.

We can but hope.

Rhys


Heck no argument from me on that score.

Like I said, I sometimes wonder at the benefit of open discussion on something that is clearly dead and buried.
(NOTE: No reference to NL specifically in that)


Posted by: memorex

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDawg
memorex, was it really necessary to jump all over my back? My post is to Jeff, telling him my true intentions here, as I just called Fred a ******* the other day. Which probably contributed to Jeff wanting to leave.


Hello BigDawg

Believe you me I wasnt jumping on your back if I was you would have heard a lot more from me.

I was referring to your post that doesnt have any relevance in it regarding this thread .

If you had have stated that you felt that it was your name calling that caused you write what you said all well and good.

I and everyone else in the HPhyip forum are not mindreaders and are not capable of deciphering this.

When there is no relevant text regarding this thread in your statement .

This is why I wrote what I wrote and was not jumping all over your back as you think but simply moderating the forum.

We do have a set of rules and they are adhered to because we do not want to become like other forums in a free for all .


regards
memorex


Posted by: BigDawg

No problem Memorex, I should have stated my post differently.



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