New program in FeederFund!

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New program in FeederFund! - Leopard Fund
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Posted by: clifton

I entered my FF account just to see something and noticed a new program added to it - Leopard Fund. What do you think about it? The site looks funny, but by the information provided about it it seems legal

Posted by: forwardone

http://www.theleopardfund.com/

They say that they`ve filed with the SEC. The site also gives Las Vegas as their address, along with phone nos. So far so good.

Posted by: clifton

It is listed on goldrater and has a folder in TG. LOL.

Posted by: sujit_76

I just visited my FF a/c but don't see any additions there

Posted by: clifton

It is there under "Programs"

Posted by: Hardlyworkin

sujit_76 welcome to the forum, glad to have you with us.

Posted by: Devilboy

I don't get why it has a folder on TG...

Posted by: Cerebus28

This is THE perfect opportunity to see whether FF is legit or not. If someone could actually verify that Leopard fund is registered with the SEC, and then if they are, we can assume they are legit, we can then contact Leopard Fund to see if they have a legit relationship with FF. If it all checks out, that would be an indirect endorsement of FF by the SEC, at least to the extent an SEC sanctioned fund has chosen to do business with FF.

On the other hand, if Leopard Fund is not really registered with the SEC, we insantly know FF is a fraud, because that would be a basic bit of due diligence. If Leopard Fund really is SEC approved, one could also contact Leopard to see if they really are doing business with FF and trust their word, meaning FF is not just a ponzi claiming to invest in various funds.

So...who wants to call the SEC???

Posted by: tulasu

What's wrong with you calling them?

Posted by: forwardone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerebus28

This is THE perfect opportunity to see whether FF is legit or not. If someone could actually verify that Leopard fund is registered with the SEC, and then if they are, we can assume they are legit, we can then contact Leopard Fund to see if they have a legit relationship with FF. If it all checks out, that would be an indirect endorsement of FF by the SEC, at least to the extent an SEC sanctioned fund has chosen to do business with FF.

On the other hand, if Leopard Fund is not really registered with the SEC, we insantly know FF is a fraud, because that would be a basic bit of due diligence. If Leopard Fund really is SEC approved, one could also contact FF to see if they really are doing business with FF and trust their word, meaning FF is not just a ponzi claiming to invest in various funds.

So...who wants to call the SEC???

That makes a lot of sense.

Posted by: ydutil

Quote:

So...who wants to call the SEC???

I did yesterday. There is no filling under the name Leopard. That does not mean that they did not filled. If there is one it's probably under another corporation name.

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ydutil

I did yesterday. There is no filling under the name Leopard neither under MJE sales... That does not mean that they did not filled. If there is one it's probably under another corporation name.

The Nevada Secretary of State has a company called Corpthis, an incorporation company, located at the address Leopard Fund says its located at.

http://sos.state.nv.us/comm_rec/ralist/

Quote:

NEVADA STATE CORPORATE NETWORK, INC.
CHAU TRAN / AMY FALLON
2764 LAKE SAHARA DRIVE SUITE 111
LAS VEGAS, NV 89117
Telephone: 702-838-8599 Toll Free: 800-910-9919
Fax: 702-838-5130
Website: WWW.CORPTHIS.COM
Email: INFO@CORPTHIS.COM

I see a lot of different companies have that as their address. I'm assuming corpthis allows its clients who incorporate to use their address.

Posted by: Cerebus28

I sent an email to the SEC.

Posted by: ydutil

This adress is a maildrop at 250$/year.

Posted by: clifton

Lol. So we have nothing to proove their legitimacy so far?

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifton

Lol. So we have nothing to proove their legitimacy so far?

Apparently not, but we'll have to wait to hear back from the SEC to have a real idea.

Posted by: Cerebus28

I corresponded with someone from Leopard Fund, and he was very forthcoming with info on how I could verify their registration with the SEC. He also said he was aware of FF and how they planned to invest in the Leopard Fund. He hasn't gotten back to me yet as to whether FF actually IS invested in Leopard Fund yet, but it's probably a bit early for that, given FF just added them to the list.

I'm going to actually verify Leopard Fund when the SEC opens again, which I suppose is tomorrow.

I hope this all checks out. I'd love for FF to be the real deal so I can feel comfortable putting some serious money with them.

Posted by: Cerebus28

Here's the SEC link to Leopard Fund's parent company.

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-e...tion=getcompany

Posted by: clifton

Well that look nice imho

Posted by: Devilboy

Ok, so they filed 2 months ago. How come they claim to have a history of 10 years with no negative months?

Posted by: Devilboy

Some weird stuff in their recent past:

This topic in TG: http://talkgold.com/forum/r29727-.html says that they had some loan program paying 25% per month - supposedly backed by some real traders.

That post links to http://www.mjeinvest.com which is clearly related to Leopardfund.

That mjeinvest site looks like crap and runs some stupid javascript 'protection' nonsense which completely broke my Internet explorer. The rest of their websites looks horrible too - http://www.mjesales.com/

What the hell is this thing?

Posted by: bread

Pretty crappy website. Looks more like a garage sale.

.

Posted by: clifton

Looks terrible, yes. The leopardfund's site does as well look crapy. However i am quite generous to bad sites, since many real programs don't care about their web presense.
But, after looking at MJE Sales site i was terrified. A program accepting 10k minimum and making 5% per month is running a crappy low trafic site full of Adsense ads? LOL.

Unfortunately we can't see what exactly MJE Invest program was since there are no records in web archive for that site. The only useful info is the TG thread which Devilboy posted.

I don't know what to think right now, but thanks to Devilboy to bringing this to our attention. All i can see is that i smell more fish with each new FF's addition

Posted by: bread

Check this out

http://drinkvibe.blogspot.com/
http://vibe.mjesales.com/

Posted by: ydutil

Quote:

Here's the SEC link to Leopard Fund's parent company.

When I called I got the answer that they were not registered under the investment company, mutual funds or closed-end funds. Looks like Mr. Edgard on the SEC website is more reliable that Bob on the phone

If you dig a little you will find that this MJE guy was active in PIPS, Picpay, Plexpay and other MLM ventures. Also he seems to be active in DXGold. Maybe that's where they get this 80%/year with capital guarantee.

Posted by: bread

Yes, ydutil.. this MJE guy, Matt Ellsworth published a number of articles
http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Matt_Ellsworth

I believe he is more like an entrepreneur and any investments to Leopard Fund may be used for some "business ventures"

.

Posted by: clifton

If all his "business ventures" are like mjesales.com (and from the articles all the links go only there) i really hope he's doing better in DxGold and the investment is there. By the amount of traffic and inbound like that mjesales site gets i think he barely could make 1k monthly on it.

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilboy

Ok, so they filed 2 months ago. How come they claim to have a history of 10 years with no negative months?

I don't know, but it's possible they ran their fund for many years without registering.

Posted by: Cerebus28

The SEC answered my email. They said MJE dba Leopard did file its form D and I can get a copy of it. They said for additional info to contact the Nevada Secretary of State.

The only bit of info that I'm now curious about is the principal of Leopard Fund, who they claim is a licensed attorney in California. I couldn't find Matt on martindale.com, but maybe he's not the principal. At any rate, I'm sure I could get the principal's name from the Form D and then do a check with the California Bar.

Also, Matt from Leopard Fund confirmed that FF has committed funds to it, although the funds aren't actually there yet.

I'm inclined to think Leopard Fund is legitimate at this point. It's unlikely scammers would go through the trouble of registering with the SEC. This bodes well for FF because I doubt some ponzi HYIP would be trying to do business with SEC registered investment funds.

Posted by: forwardone

Cerebus28, excellent piece of investigative work you`ve done there. I`m sure our members appreciate your efforts.

Posted by: luckasus

Quote:

Originally Posted by forwardone

Cerebus28, excellent piece of investigative work you`ve done there. I`m sure our members appreciate your efforts.

yes! thank you auspice!

Posted by: betrdanevr

Quote:

Originally Posted by forwardone

Cerebus28, excellent piece of investigative work you`ve done there. I`m sure our members appreciate your efforts.

I third that!

Posted by: clifton

Congrats to Cerebuts as well

Posted by: Cerebus28

But even with all that said, I still think FF is fishy, for the simple reason that I don't think consistent 20% per month returns with no losing months is possible.

Posted by: clifton

You mean FXIG, eh?

Posted by: katzenhai2

@cerebus28:

Quote:

But even with all that said, I still think FF is fishy, for the simple reason that I don't think consistent 20% per month returns with no losing months is possible.

FXIG even don't lose one day! They had profit every day, between 0.3% and 1.3%. No loss in several years!

Posted by: clifton

Welcome to the forum, katzenhai. If they really exists for years is highly questionable in fact. But anyway we are going offtopic

Posted by: isamu

Hmm, what about the rumour that Xavier(FLO) is the admin of Leopard Fund?

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu

Hmm, what about the rumour that Xavier(FLO) is the admin of Leopard Fund?

Who? What?

Posted by: clifton

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu

Hmm, what about the rumour that Xavier(FLO) is the admin of Leopard Fund?

What's the source of that rumor? I would be surprised, as far as i remember FLO's site wasn't so crappy

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifton

I would be surprised, as far as i remember FLO's site wasn't so crappy

Yes, and you'd think a fugitive smart enough to steal millions from people would not go anywhere near the SEC.

Posted by: moremoe

I think after all is said and done you will come back to what the vast majority of investors already know; that Feeder Fund has been and continues to be a legitimate, trustworthy organization that has assembled a group of funds that offer reliable and trustworthy returns. There has been nothing to suggest otherwise and you are unlikely to get better verification than what has already been provided by SensaTrust and what is, after all, a good track record.

As for rumours; if one held off investing based on rumour concerns -which are endles in hyipland, you would never invest.

Posted by: THEGODFATHER

Feederfund again and again continues to strive up the ladder, they move slow in my opinion but they steadily rise to greatness. They have never let me or anyone I know as of late down. I'd be interested in anyone who could proove me wrong.

Sincerly, TGF.

Posted by: Cerebus28

Unfortunately, even with all of the positive things going for FF, they are still off shore, anonymous and unverified by any reputable 3rd party (the closest thing is Sensatrust, which itself is offshore, anonymous and unverified). That being the case, I cannot bring myself to invest anymore with FF than I'd feel comfortable losing if they disappeared suddenly. I really wish that weren't the case. I'd love to sink a huge chunk into FF, but my skepticism and sense of caution prohibit me. Oh, well. If FF is real, then my FXIG investment will turn into a huge chunk in a couple years anyway...

Posted by: THEGODFATHER

A program going private and offline I can deal with, but being anonamous does raise suspicous doubts once in awhile no matter what excuse there is for it.

Posted by: mjesales

Hey everyone,

I just found this forum in our traffic logs and I thought I would see what everyone had to say about the Leopard Fund. It seems that there are a lot of questions.

First, if anyone has any specific questions after reviewing the Leopard Fund website, please feel free to send them directly to us at info@leopardfund.net or call us at 1-702-953-5733.

In response to the several questions posted here about Leopard Fund and or the MJE Sales website – here are some quick responses. First of all, yes, we know the design quality of some of our websites is poor. (Thank you). Obviously the leopard fund website is a little better than mjesales.com. The mjesales.com website will be redesigned sometime soon, but we’re still deciding on the right look, etc.

MJE Sales, LLC registered the Leopard Fund pursuant to the Regulation D exemption with the Securities and Exchange Commission. This exemption authorizes the Leopard Fund to issue a security , in this case in the form of a loan, and not have to be a broker/dealer to sell or issue the security.

The loan proceeds on account with the leopard fund are traded by professional traders with a rock solid track record. Although the trading history of our trading partners is proprietary and confidential, we will make it available upon request to any serious investor under strict NDA guidelines. This information has been reviewed by the admin of FeederFund. Feeder Fund has also performed admirable and serious due diligence on the Leopard Fund. The Feeder Fund admin is to be congradulated for its top quality scrutiny of our opportunity. Leopard Fund was more than happy to provide the admin with all requested information.

Someone commented that the address we use for MJE Sales is a Nevada address. This is because MJE Sales, LLC is a Nevada LLC and naturally has a Nevada address. It should be noted that Nevada corporations are a commonly used structure for many domestic organizations similar to a time when many corporations commonly used a Delaware corporation for various legal and tax benefits. Anyone who wishes to contact us, can feel free to call us at 1-702-953-5733. You may also email us your name, phone number, time zone and a good time to call you back and we will be happy to call you to answer any questions you may have.

It was also mentioned that MJE Sales used to accept Picpay. This is sad but true. MJE Sales, LLC was in fact the largest picpay merchant with over $9,000,000.00 in sales , (mainly in gift card products). No funds were ever sent to us by Picpay in validation of the sales we had generated and all sales were ultimately reversed by Picpay prior to investigated by Bank Negara.

It may be of interest to some to know that we do accept DxGold as a form of payment for our gift cards, but we do not use the dxportfolio or other services offered by DxInOne.

Some one also pointed out the articles that I post on ezinearticles.com . I occasionally write articles and post them on there, I post them other places as well such as mjesales.com.

Finally, someone pointed out the websites regarding Eniva/Vibe. It is true that I have been involved in some select network marketing programs.

Posted by: clifton

Thanks for coming here, Admin. I will send you few questions by email.

Posted by: mjesales

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifton

Thanks for coming here, Admin. I will send you few questions by email.

You are very welcome. We noticed web-life.org in the traffic logs and we were surprised that there was a whole thread here about it.

Anyone who has questions, please feel free to email us. We respond to email faster than Private Messages.

Posted by: forwardone

It`s always good to be able to get information about a program from `the horses mouth` so to speak. Thanks for visiting and explaining a few things for our members.

Posted by: mjesales

Quote:

Originally Posted by forwardone

It`s always good to be able to get information about a program from `the horses mouth` so to speak. Thanks for visiting and explaining a few things for our members.

No problem at all, I would have been here before but I didn't know there was a post on this forum about us until I was reviewing the traffic logs.

Posted by: value4money

Yeah, good to see you here.

Posted by: dayspring2

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjesales

No problem at all, I would have been here before but I didn't know there was a post on this forum about us until I was reviewing the traffic logs.

Hi Matt,

It is Lee, I get web life newsletters and was more curious then usual when I saw a discussion about the Leopard Fund and that you had made an appearance here. Thanks for answering all the questions. I need to direct a friend to this thread to read your post, she was just asking me about the Leopard Fund. Catch you later.

Regards, Lee

Posted by: shipdit

I know no one wants to hear this, but:

If these clowns could produce (much less guarantee) anything CLOSE to 5% a month, every brokerage house on the planet (I mean those controlling TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars) would be beating a path to their door BEGGING them to manage their billions. They would be on the cover of Forbes, Wall Street Journal and every other major financial publications. Bill Gates would sell his Microsoft stock, invest the proceeds with these guys, and figure out some way to live on 30 *BILLION* a year in *interest*.

Please remember the old saying about making the same mistake over and over yet expecting a different result.....

SD

.

Posted by: clifton

Well, shipdit, i don't think 5% monthly is so hard to achieve. We have mutual funds here in Bulgaria which make 2%-3% with rather conservative strategies.

Posted by: golddust

Prior to "mjesales" posting here, I had many questions and concerns. Now at least the SEC questions are summarily answered, but does not answer some other questions as to who (else) is involved, officers, etc. A "D" filing is appropriate however.
I have followed this thread with interest as I am not a FF member and LF may or may not interest me as things shake out.
Shipdit, it is always good to post your opinion to be 'heard', however, I have to agree with Clifton, there are many HYIPs that are long term and have consistently produced 5%/mo or better.
I don't think you have to worry about Bill Gates or any other 'priceless' person missing this opportunity. Though I am not watching MS stock, I am sure he has his affairs taken care of in ways that at least show 5% appreciation/mo.

golddust

Posted by: shipdit

Quote:

Originally Posted by golddust

Shipdit, it is always good to post your opinion to be 'heard', however, I have to agree with Clifton, there are many HYIPs that are long term and have consistently produced 5%/mo or better.
I don't think you have to worry about Bill Gates or any other 'priceless' person missing this opportunity. Though I am not watching MS stock, I am sure he has his affairs taken care of in ways that at least show 5% appreciation/mo.

golddust

Please note via "search" that the last time I posted here, it was in a thread where people were claiming that "FreeLandOpps" was the best "investment" out there.

Microsoft shares have been essentially flat ("O" return) since they lost approx 1/2 of their value in 2000. Their last yearly earnings reported were 12.87 billion on a market capitalization of 298.16 billion. That is a 4.31% return on the value of the investment.

I'm quite sure Bill would LOVE to sell his shares for a "guaranteed" return of 60% per year.

SD

.

Posted by: golddust

Shipdit, your posts are moving further and further Off Topic.
Let me try to redirect by suggesting that if you are so concerned about Bill Gates' wealth, you should definitely give him a 'heads-up' about his possibilities with Leopard Fund.

golddust

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by golddust

Shipdit, your posts are moving further and further Off Topic.
Let me try to redirect by suggesting that if you are so concerned about Bill Gates' wealth, you should definitely give him a 'heads-up' about his possibilities with Leopard Fund.

golddust

It's not off topic, and it's rather unnerving how questions grounded in reality are often dismissed on these forums. Shipdit, brings up a legitimate point-- programs that can earn a consistent 5% per month are EXTREMELY valuable in the investment world. Those with no real experience in finance don't grasp this. If all you've seen is HYIPs offering 2% per day, then 5% per month looks miniscule. But recall that Warren Buffet became one of THE richest men in America and one of THE most famous investors OF ALL TIME by earning 31% PER YEAR. That should give you some perspective of how extraordinary 5% per month is.

Posted by: clifton

You are right, Cerebus, but let's not forget that we are for high yield here. Most of the reputable offline hedge etc. funds don't trade so risky as it is expected from the high yield programs. Separately none of the offline investment which i am aware of doesn't trade Forex. Most HYIPs claim to trade forex so some returns of 1%-2% and why not 3% weekly could probably be achieved.
However i have the very important question - what exactly is Leopard Fund trading?

Posted by: jeff1967

I personally know individuals who can make 4 or 5% in a week in arbitrage betting. That is consistent. So it just depends what you are willing to do. I don't think 5% is too unrealistic. Jeff

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifton

You are right, Cerebus, but let's not forget that we are for high yield here. Most of the reputable offline hedge etc. funds don't trade so risky as it is expected from the high yield programs. Separately none of the offline investment which i am aware of doesn't trade Forex. Most HYIPs claim to trade forex so some returns of 1%-2% and why not 3% weekly could probably be achieved.
However i have the very important question - what exactly is Leopard Fund trading?

There are plenty of hedge funds which trade forex, some have internet sites, some don't, and their returns do not look anywhere near as impressive as some of these HYIP ponzis. Go look for yourself here http://www.iasg.com/mainframe.asp? Check out "Transtrend-Diversified Program," for example. They have about 250 million under management, and have a 10 million dollar minimum investment. Guess what their returns are...8.5%...PER YEAR. This is the reality in the legitimate investment world. Beware, those only exposed to ponzis may find this depressing...

Forex trading is nothing new. It's just recently the small (unsophisticated) investor has heard of it, and it's the new bullshit of choice for ponzis looking to explain their unrealistic returns. I'll tell you one thing about Forex, though...it's apart from most other types of trading in terms of liquidity. With stocks, you could have a day trading system that returns several hundred percent per year, but you can't handle more than a million or so dollars before your returns drop. With forex, that's not an issue. You can trade hundreds of millions just the same as a few thousand. What does this mean?

It means if you have an awesome FX trading system, you can easily jack up your minimum investment to the millions, manage hundreds of millions, even billions, and then become the richest most famous man in the world. In other words, if you have an awesome FX trading system, you're not going to be taking 50 bucks a pop from people in egold...that is, unless you're very altruistic, which is what FXIG claims.

I'm not saying 5%+ per month is impossible, I'm just saying if you do this consistently and legitimately, you'll have people begging you to manage millions. This begs the question of why anyone with such ability would be taking small sums in egold. The assumption is that it's a scam, although it's not necessarily. But anyone raising the issue should not be dismissed. It's a legitimate issue.

And by the way, if their high returns could be explained by higher risk taking, then you'd see drawdowns, i.e., more volatility, but you often don't...

Please recall, I'm not talking about Leopard Fund specifically...I have no idea what they do or what they trade, and it's good they've filed with the SEC. For that reason, I'd presume they're legit.

Posted by: mjesales

Quote:

Originally Posted by dayspring2

Lee,

Thats good to hear, you know our number, feel free to call us.

Matt

Posted by: mjesales

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerebus28

I'm not exactly sure how to respond to all these posts, so I will try my best. Although anyone who was seriously interested in participating is free to contact us directly.

The track record for the past 5 years of the trader we use has exceeded 5% per month on a consistent basis. Even when the dotcom bubble burst, the trader we use was turning a much better than average return. The track record has been reviewed by the admin of feederfund.

To answer what is being traded - option spread trades using an algorithm that the trading group has developed over the past several years.

Anyone who is serious about participating should feel free to contact us directly.

Matt

Posted by: Cerebus28

mjesales,

I'm inclined to ask you this over email, but I'm sure many here want to know the same thing, so I'll ask it here--

What can you say about the admin of Feeder Fund? Since you've registered with the SEC, your word has credibility. How well do you know him? Is he trustworthy? Is Feeder Fund legitimate?

Posted by: mjesales

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerebus28

mjesales,

I'm inclined to ask you this over email, but I'm sure many here want to know the same thing, so I'll ask it here--

What can you say about the admin of Feeder Fund? Since you've registered with the SEC, your word has credibility. How well do you know him? Is he trustworthy? Is Feeder Fund legitimate?

Hello,

The admin of feederfund is extremely professional and a very good business man. We spent a lot of time on the phone, email, etc to get Leopard Fund listed, feederfund does a lot of due dillegence before they will list a program on their site.

I hope that helps.

Matt

Posted by: golddust

Quote:

My response to this post was not to "dismiss" his comments, but focus on the TOPIC, NOT the last time SD was at this forum, and NOT to re-focus on whatever his inference was concerning FLO. And the (de)value of MS stock goes to the economy of the stock market among other vast factors.
I think it would be valuable to remember how Mr. Bill made his fortune, and it was not by 4.31% p.a. He had his 'time' to experience wildly amazing growth, more than 99.9 of us will ever experience. IMO, I don't think Mr. Bill personally would consider 5%/mo interesting. Now from a MS stock perspective, that might tickle some folks, but what I previously meant is I'm fairly certain that Mr. Bill has his own 'personal' assets on a very profitable course, even with losses and risky ventures, he can well afford to take.
Those who do enrich their wealth in the stock market don't consider 4.31% pa aggressive growth. What we are talking about is 'moderate' growth through trading and I KNOW that 5%/mo is attainable and sustainable. I am with 2 programs right now that at least achieve, and historically exceed 5%/mo. And this IS produced by programs which manage funds for little investors because to the admins, it is giving some honesty back to those who have been ripped off by hyped-up unsustainable returns, scams and scamsters. I'm pretty sure the admins are making money too, despite their 'altruism'.
This answers the question begged-

Quote:

why anyone with such ability would be taking small sums in egold.

After considerable amount of time in this arena, I do not assume or expect that 5%/mo is a given. However, Shipdit has also had a great deal of 'time' in HYIP and challenging the validity of a program legitimately earning 5%/mo, is a bit voracious and oppositional to accepted knowledge over 'time' in HYIP.

Quote:

Shipdit, brings up a legitimate point-- programs that can earn a consistent 5% per month are EXTREMELY valuable in the investment world.I'm not saying 5%+ per month is impossible,...The assumption is that it's a scam, although it's not necessarily.

This really is the point; there are going to be safe "valuable" programs offering 5%/mo which HYIP investors are secure and comfy with, and there are going to be Scams. I agree that each opportunity needs to be examined on a case by case basis be it 5 or 50%/mo. But I do dismiss focus on non compartive issues, and opposition to fact. The fact is that programs offering "real" 5%/mo earnings exist.

So Cerebus, do we agree or agree to disagree?

golddust

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by golddust

So Cerebus, do we agree or agree to disagree?

golddust

We agree, I'm just a very skeptical person by nature.

Posted by: golddust

There is nothing wrong with skepticism, it comes with experience. I'm happy to agree with another skeptic.

golddust

Posted by: THEGODFATHER

Whatever changes go on with FF, I'm confident they'll last longer then most, and well more then after 6 months into the new year.

Posted by: poldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by tulasu

What's wrong with you calling them?

Exactly.. there will be pages and pages of people assuming and wondering and asking other people... is it legit? it's a phone call away
obviously they must be registered or they wouldn't be able to do business in the USA

Posted by: poldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjesales

Matt why don't you relocate the fund off shore so we all get the tax benefit ?
and besides you will enjoy the beach life when you're off shore

Posted by: lwilliams777

Although I am relatively new to the high yield industry I am well aware of the high risk stakes involved and I invest appropriately. I appreciate this forum a lot, but I must say I am confused by those so called "skeptics". I have never seen "Devil Boy" post anything here or in any other forums about any HYIP that he supports. He speaks negatively and is very critical about all programs. I have noticed this about many other skeptics...and I get confused. I wonder what it would take to prove to them that any high yield investment is legit. Even if Feeder Fund, NFSG, ITS, 4x Club, MWA, MPDW, FSM, etc.. (reputed pillars in the high yield industry) or any other program should give up all of their priviledged information I wonder if they still would have great doubts. I have to ask myself, why are they even in this industry? Why do they troll around?

It's frustrating to me to have to read their constant skepticism all of the time. Some skepticism does have some limited value, but when a program produces as much evidence as those mentioned above, what more do we need to make a sensible decision about investing - DNA testing? But even that would not prevent scamming, and even "Devil Boy" might not accept that. By the way, "Devil Boy" speaks so much about the dangers of anonymity, why doesn't he tell us all who he is in vivid detail? How do we know he is not a federal agent collecting evidence about offshore investments in order to bring charges to all involved? See, we can all play the "skepticism" game, but what good does it accomplish? Debates that go nowhere.

Even if we invest in so called "traditional" investments (stock market, mutual funds, etc.), you can still get scammed with the best of due diligence. There comes a time when you have to just trust your own decisionmaking and "GO FOR IT".

Leon
(By the way, that's my real name)

Posted by: golddust

Hello Leon and welcome to Weblife. I am very impressed with your astute post/reply; it is obvious you've been doing positive and intelligent things to succeed at earning money in high yield. I can't speak for or against Devilboy's agenda specifically, and I hope that he will return to reply personally.
Generally speaking among the numerous HYIP discussion forums, there are some well know skeptics. Some like the position of 'devils advocate', some are trolling around for a subject to argue about, some are looking for specific people to "call-out", some look for particular programs to shoot at, and some are just going to take to the opposite side, no matter what. (And of course, there are some who do all of this).
You will also come across society's 'deadbeats'; can't succeed in life with real people, so they gain some success and esteem by bullying people behind their monitor. There are also some who may be off their "meds" and not at all reality based...
In defense however, skeptics raise awareness and issues that others may be complacent about, or never considered. There is a place for skeptics who can rally opinions without it becoming personal or in a word, insulting. At least here at WL, that is where the discussions stop - thread closed/post deleted - it isn't necessary to launch a personal attack to make a point. There are many forums with unmoderated folders called 'war zone' or something similiar where those kind of discussions do go on, so if you want to take it to the mat with someone, there are places.
Anonymity, legitimacy, sustainability are among the issues of skeptics in almost any financial environment and you are right, even with those traditional investment vehicles, SCAMs occur despite the skeptics (who told ya so) and in spite of the believers. There is nothing skeptics or the wisest of people can do about it.
I suppose the bottom line is that it is all about the satisfaction, the overall feeling of power when logic is defied even defiled by being skeptical. Unwavering, infuriating and wrong!

Following the logic of a 'skeptic' can be a challenge. But as long as the logic and reasoning is sound, though you may not agree, it can be the best information of the day. Sometimes skepticism is realistic, just offensive. It could be that is the only real difference between a skeptical opinion and a negative one.
My 'advice' to you; just take a skeptic's comments as food for thought, don't get hooked, move on. Definitely better things to do with your time. GO FOR IT!!!

Thanks for your very thoughtful and observant post!

golddust

Posted by: Devilboy

What a loaded post! I'll see what I can do to rebut.

Firstly about anonymity. I'm perfectly entitled to remain anonymous, because unlike these investments I'm not asking you or anyone else to entrust me with your money. If I'm giving my money to someone, though, I'd want to know who they are. And I believe that everyone else should insist on it too.

What would it take to convince me that an investment is legit? It depends on the type of investment, but generally I'll need to know who I'm dealing with (ID documents) and I want proof of where my investment is going (trading history). There's a bunch of other things that helps too, but those are the 2 main ones. If you run a forex fund I'll want to see at least a notarised passport copy (which I'll verify with the notary), and some sort of proof of your trading history (e.g. a login to the reporting area of your forex broker)

As to those I support? Well I have a managed forex account, and I'm a big fan of North Sea Forex Group and also anything that's been verified by SensaTrust is good in my books since I'm in regular contact with the ST guys and they don't screw around with DD.

Personally I REALLY don't see any point in 100 posts from cheerleaders saying 'yay I'm paid $3.50 again today'. What does that prove? Nothing. All ponzis pay in the beginning. Paying 100 cheerleaders doesn't make them any more legit.

But if I'm investing in something and someone has some concerns about that fund, I want to know about it! It may be nothing, but it may be the early warning that I needed to save me from losing my money. The sceptics are way more useful than all the cheerleaders out there.

In regular life it's fine to give people the benefit of the doubt. But here in Ponziland where 99% (or more) of all funds are ponzis or scams, it's much better to get positive proof before you risk your hard-earned money.

Posted by: lwilliams777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilboy

......The sceptics are way more useful than all the cheerleaders out there.

Hmmm... I don't think either skeptics or cheerleaders are useful. However, I do agree with you that it is important to get positive proof, but for some even that isn't enough. It just becomes depressing when all you hear about on all these forums are those who doubt and question almost everything even about very good and stable programs. I realize that there are lots of scams and fraudulent programs out there, but if your money is hard earned and you can't afford to lose it and don't want to risk it then I ask again why not just stay away from this industry?

Ok, I am done with my annual posting. :-)

Posted by: Devilboy

Why would I stay away? I'm making good money here.

Posted by: golddust

Quote:

Why would I stay away? I'm making good money here.

Then why not discuss how you are doing that, instead of being a skeptic about what everyone else does? Seems like you have everything 'figured out'.
Let people mind their own business and they'll figure it out too, or not. Posting informative experience helps.

golddust

Posted by: clifton

Leon, there is something in the HYIP forums i will probably never understand. There are tons of people who say "this looks good", "they are paying for long time", "they are XYZ verified/approved", "i am laughing my way to the bank" etc. etc. etc.
On the contrary there are very few investigators like Devilboy who look for the wholes on the program and the dangerous lacks in the logic or legitimity. I don't see anything bad in this, i even find it veryuseful. Without the sceptics people would go to every program just because anyone is talking good about it. I can recall many examples for that, but one of the fresh ones i remember is AstraSystems. Everyone was liking the program just because it was paying and the admin was nice. There were no speptics and the program burned people's money.

Posted by: golddust

... in the case of devilboy, his skepticism presents an oxymoron, since he continues to invest and make "good money", though he is adverse to most programs.

Yes then there was Astra; I got in late after seeing the rave postings, still made "good money" before it disappeared.
I think maybe this is the "GO FOR IT", attitude that Leon seeks to affirm. Skeptics would disagree.

golddust

Posted by: clifton

Yeah, golddust, there is not a problem with the "go for it". I also invest in many programs in which i am not confidient enough. But we should never forget there are lots of newbies who swalow each word they read in the forums. Our due is to let everyone know about the possible holes and problems in the programs

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifton

But we should never forget there are lots of newbies who swalow each word they read in the forums. Our due is to let everyone know about the possible holes and problems in the programs

Exactly, if someone has no experience in the bonafide investment world, they would not have the perspective to know that 2% per day is outrageous. It may still be profitable, but one should know that is almost certainly a ponzi.

Posted by: Devilboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by golddust

... in the case of devilboy, his skepticism presents an oxymoron, since he continues to invest and make "good money", though he is adverse to most programs.

Yes then there was Astra; I got in late after seeing the rave postings, still made "good money" before it disappeared.
I think maybe this is the "GO FOR IT", attitude that Leon seeks to affirm. Skeptics would disagree.

golddust

I do not invest in ponzis. It's like buying stolen goods. It's also illegal. I'm against most programs cause most programs are ponzis. I try my best to invest only in legit funds. Yes you can make money in ponzis but that's not what I do.

Posted by: poldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipdit

Bill Gates ownes a large lot of Apple shares

Posted by: clifton

You might be interested to read the interview with the admin:

http://hywd.info/node/229

Posted by: forwardone

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifton

You might be interested to read the interview with the admin:

http://hywd.info/node/229

That`s a good interview, clifton.

Posted by: clifton

Thanks, Geoff

Posted by: golddust

I think it would be very worthwhile to pursue why LF does not feel they need the "services" of Senst Trust.

golddust

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by golddust

I think it would be very worthwhile to pursue why LF does not feel they need the "services" of Senst Trust.

golddust

Ya, was curious about that too, but I can't say I blame them. After all, Sensa Trust is essentially a group of guys from HYIP forums, whose identities aren't even put forth in a transparent way on their own site, is it not? That being the case, I can understand not wanting to turn all of your personal information over to them. Isn't an anonymous group of people without an address with the word "trust" in their title sort of oxymoronic?

Posted by: golddust

Good Point!

To be or not to be...

Posted by: forwardone

Only a thought, and I could be way off base here. To me the HYIP community is one that I`d say is rather `closed` off. In other words the traditional forms of investment companies and banks wouldn`t be the ideal way for any HYIP to get verified, in fact I doubt they`d be interested. That being the case surely it`s a question of having the best available individuals from within the HYIP community, in other words a `needs must.`

I agree though it would be interesting to discover just why LF has reservations about using the services of Sensa Trust, which I know is made up of members with as good a reputation as anyone in the field of HYIPs.

Posted by: golddust

Quote:

I agree though it would be interesting to discover just why LF has reservations about using the services of Sensa Trust, which I know is made up of members with as good a reputation as anyone in the field of HYIPs.

LF admin may or may not know this and either way, it could be their reason... But in the same way I find it is hard to understand why Sensa Trust does not pursue DD with all the programs included in FF. Perhaps this is some agreement with Matt C where he has taken on those duties. IMO, it diminishes the value of FF being Sensa Trust approved.

golddust

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by forwardone

To me the HYIP community is one that I`d say is rather `closed` off.

Yes, it's "closed off" because 99% of HYIPS are scams, and con men tend not to be very open.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forwardone

In other words the traditional forms of investment companies and banks wouldn`t be the ideal way for any HYIP to get verified, in fact I doubt they`d be interested. That being the case surely it`s a question of having the best available individuals from within the HYIP community, in other words a `needs must.`

I'm sure there are some very honest individuals out there in HYIP land, but the truth of the matter is that the "HYIP community" is, in essence, a bunch of people who invest in ponzi schemes. To select people from such a group and then try to label them as trustworthy is perhaps relatively trust inspiring, but from an objective standpoint, laughable.

Banks aren't necessary. Simply pay a reputable accounting firm to audit your records. They'll do it for anyone for a fee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forwardone

They've already registered with the SEC, which is pretty much the ultimate in trustworthiness among overseeing bodies. After doing that, I don't see why they'd expose themselves to the mystery men behind Sensa Trust.

Posted by: clifton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerebus28

Just a small correction here. MJE Sales is registered with SEC, LF is not

Posted by: SoothSayeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerebus28

Sensa Trust is essentially a group of guys from HYIP forums, whose identities aren't even put forth in a transparent way on their own site...Isn't an anonymous group of people without an address with the word "trust" in their title sort of oxymoronic?

Although I can appreciate your critical nature, I am at a loss as to why you believe the SensaTrust Partners are "hidden" or anonymous

In a similar vein as to why I understand Admin's desires to maintain discreet identities, I also feel that too many open details of identities can be highly problematic - even dangerous at times! Especially as scammers, hackers & the type already perceive us as targets and our personal life (families, homes, phones etc) is ours to protect no?

For myself, although I am not a frequent poster as such, I am an avid reader of forums & have been around this arena for several years now. In addition both myself (& Simon) have been "visible & contactable" in so far as easily available anytime via PM, email, posts, our forums, chats...and my valued friends/associates can vouch for my openess regarding any subject

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerebus28

...the truth of the matter is that the "HYIP community" is, in essence, a bunch of people who invest in ponzi schemes. To select people from such a group...

Just to stand up for a group (ST) I sincerely believe in, there hasn't been & never will be ANY ponzi's or the sort supported nor included within SensaTrust verified opportunities

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoothSayeR

Although I can appreciate your critical nature, I am at a loss as to why you believe the SensaTrust Partners are "hidden" or anonymous

Am I missing something? Because I could not find a list on ST's website of who the people are in the group. When you click on the "Who We Are" button, it simply gives you a vague answer about how they're a group of investors spread throughout the world. Would you like to turn over all your private info to an unnamed "group spread throughout the world"?

The only names I could find were "Victor" and "Boulat Rafikov," meaning I could only find one full name and one first name. That's not exactly transparency.

I also understand Simon Pink is associated with the group, yet his name appears no where on the website.

Now, am I crazy, or does this sound like the people behind the show are not being forthcoming with their identities?

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifton

Just a small correction here. MJE Sales is registered with SEC, LF is not

They're one in the same. MJE Sales is doing business as Leopard Fund.

Posted by: golddust

Quote:

MJE Sales is registered with SEC, LF is not...MJE Sales is doing business as Leopard Fund

If they are registered with the SEC, then it would have to be a "DBA", and both MJE and LF would need 'disclosure' to the SEC.

Quote:

... don't know that I would describe the SEC "the ultimate in trustworthiness".... however, if indeed they MJE is registered with the SEC then ST could access this information as public record.

golddust

Posted by: Cerebus28

Quote:

Originally Posted by golddust

however, if indeed they MJE is registered with the SEC then ST could access this information as public record.

golddust

MJE is registered with the SEC. Here's the link.

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-e...tion=getcompany

And yes, ST could access the information by requesting a copy of the form D.

Posted by: THEGODFATHER

The idea is for them to work they way up the ladder and get verified in all ways possible. Wether or not anyone trusts or depends on the verification is never going to change.

Posted by: golddust

Quote:

Wether or not anyone trusts or depends on the verification is never going to change.

Until recently, I would have agreed with you. Now the emphasis is changing, as I think is good, that people who are seriously interested in making money in HYIPs are looking for DD and credible information. The more this actually happens, the more difficult a job it becomes to be a scammer.

golddust

Posted by: ydutil

Quote:

After doing that, I don't see why they'd expose themselves to the mystery men behind Sensa Trust.

Cerebus, as admins of Sensatrust, believe me, we do not only have friends in this arena. It would be an unecessary risk for us to publish our private details on ST's website.

I (and other SensaTrust admins) are far from "mystery men". We would be glad to meet you in person if you are interested, depending on the area where you live. We tend to travel a lot, do not hesitate to contact us.

Posted by: Sstugatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by golddust

Because Sensa Trust doesn't pursue Due Dilligence investigations. If Leopard Fund wants to be investigated, they'll come to us. FF came to us, we were glad to deal with them, but also made it clear that it would be essential for us to distance ourselves from their investments vehicles, most of which we know very little about, and we wish to take no responsability for should they close. Our investigation was aimed towards the FF administrators, who are they, where are they, and how's their management.

I know some people claim we should push for opps to be investigated, but it's an ambiguous territory, as some opps might feel "threatened" if we were to pursue them, and for logistic reasons, it's better they come to us.

Posted by: candy

Leopard Fund is no longer an option at FF.

Posted by: forwardone

Wonder what happened there then, candy?

Posted by: candy

My guess is that FF did not like the government entaglements of Leopard.

Posted by: golddust

I don't know if it is government entanglements or the Corp/organizational structure of LF.

Posted by: golddust

The fact that LF was no longer a program in the suite of FF programs was announced in July. There was a C&D Order issued by the State of TX in May. FF has made no comments concerning the C&D.

golddust

Posted by: forwardone

Another one for the Closed folder.