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Legal ways to opt out of paying social security and other taxes.

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Posted by: THEGODFATHER

As many people know I am a newly ordained minister.

Introducing, Father...TGF.

I've heard through talk on other forums such as this one here.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=134623

that as an ordained minister if I wanted too, I don't have to pay Social Security if I didn't want to. And maybe even get a REFUND later in life.

Can anyone who knows this subject or has done it themselves explain to me and everyone here on how this is done? How do I opt out of SS payments?

What else can I opt out of paying in life through ordained ministry or other free or cheap resources in life?

Thanks, you'll be on my good list that I send to santa this year. :P

Yours indefinatly,
The God FATHER.


Posted by: Rog

Quote:
Originally Posted by THEGODFATHER
As many people know I am a newly ordained minister.

Introducing, Father...TGF.

I've heard through talk on other forums such as this one here.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=134623

that as an ordained minister if I wanted too, I don't have to pay Social Security if I didn't want to. And maybe even get a REFUND later in life.

Can anyone who knows this subject or has done it themselves explain to me and everyone here on how this is done? How do I opt out of SS payments?

What else can I opt out of paying in life through ordained ministry or other free or cheap resources in life?

Thanks, you'll be on my good list that I send to santa this year. :P

Yours indefinatly,
The God FATHER.


You only have a small window of opportunity to opt out from the date of ordination. And you have to say that your religious beliefs prohibit your participation.

There is one catch: Legally, if you opt out of SS, you must set aside an equal amount of what would have been deducted in a private account, such an IRA or other retirement fund. Theoretically, if you do not, and the IRS ever finds out, you will be required to invest the lump sum of what should have been invested or face fines and penalties.


Posted by: forwardone

Interesting thread, I never realised it was possible to opt out under such circumstances. Must be an American thing.


Posted by: moremoe

You really belive this? Sorry to burst your bubble gf, but it's simply not legit. This was a fad/business in the 60' & 70's, if not before that even. It's legal value/merit is on the same level as diploma mill degrees. If you try and use this for any legal or tax benefit first you will be laughed at and second you will be in bigger trouble if you try and avoid paying taxes, soc security, etc using such an excuse.

Trust me this con has been around a long time, and as long as you buy it for novelty value there is no problem..... I remember one such business; called The Universal Life Church. Maybe still making $$ this way, lol.


Posted by: Los

Either that or move to Australia where social security aka Centrlink pays you .... if they feel like it and only then so long as you abide by a multipage agreement and total invasion of privacy.

Seriously though we pay that too in our taxes after all we are the most heavily taxed population in the world, if we aint they are lying.


Posted by: forwardone

Nah Los, you Aussies have got it easy. Try paying around £1 for one litre of petrol and you`ll soon know about it.

Seriously though, I think we ought to hold a competition to see which nation has the most heavy taxes, then whoever wins we`ll send them the money `cos obviously they need it most.


Posted by: Los

man dont worry about the competition just send me the dough. you have no idea we would have to be the most heavily taxed nation or hang on make that state ( victoria ) in the worl easily.

we have taxes on taxes, , the average aussie guy ( melbournian ) pays more taxes per capitita than anywhere in the world if i am wrong i will eat my hat.


Posted by: forwardone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Los
if i am wrong i will eat my hat.

Los, please DON`T! I`ve been told that where you live if `they` see you eat your own clothes they`ll impose a tax on you. Eating hats is a taxable offence.


Posted by: golddust

Very funny, but completely OT you two jokers!

In response to TGF question, I think what you need to know can be easily verified by a Tax Accountant or even by calling the IRS. Sometimes they can give you a straight answer on a simple topic or question. You know, call a few times, get a few answers and see if anyone agrees. If you don't like the answers, keep trying.

golddust


Posted by: THEGODFATHER

Thanks GoldDust. I called the IRS to check if what moremoe said was correct, and as it turns out moremoe was wrong with his below statement.

Quote:
You really belive this? Sorry to burst your bubble gf, but it's simply not legit. This was a fad/business in the 60' & 70's, if not before that even. It's legal value/merit is on the same level as diploma mill degrees. If you try and use this for any legal or tax benefit first you will be laughed at and second you will be in bigger trouble if you try and avoid paying taxes, soc security, etc using such an excuse.

Trust me this con has been around a long time, and as long as you buy it for novelty value there is no problem..... I remember one such business; called The Universal Life Church. Maybe still making $$ this way, lol.


It turns out this is not only legit, as I am a legal minister, but the ULC is one of the oldest legal to ordain churches around out of so many.

Quote:

It's legal value/merit is on the same level as diploma mill degrees. If you try and use this for any legal or tax benefit first you will be laughed at and second you will be in bigger trouble if you try and avoid paying taxes, soc security, etc using such an excuse.


Well your wrong there again.
I called the IRS and my ordanation is in fact as legal as they come, The IRS said based on my ordanation that I gave them, and on their research of the church who ordained me, I have the right to opt out of paying SS, and so I did, and therefore no longer pay SS, and a few other taxes aswell.

Although you were wrong moremoe, I do appreciate your concerns.

This topic is dead as I can see, since no ones longer interested I will now close the thread. If anyone has anything they'd like to add, simply email your moderator (me) and I will post your comment in the forum.

Thanks to all your help everyone. Good Teamwork.

Your REVEREND,

The God Father.


Posted by: forwardone

Since the thread is now closed we `ll unsticky it too.


Posted by: forwardone

Actually just thinking about it this has thrown up a few interesting questions, one`s which I for one would like the answers to, and I`m sure some members would also.


Posted by: moremoe

From my research, Universal Life Church has had numerous run ins with the IRS since the 1960's. In fact the legal position has been and remains that individuals cannot make themselves tax exempt; only a church organization itself can. And the IRS has always tried to revoke that status for ULC because it is a certificate mill earning income primarily from it's various products.

Individuals cannot take advantage of tax exemptions, otherwise millions would sign up with ULC, buy thier documents and stop paying taxes. I'm not defending the IRS here, just pointing out that they will not let you get away with opting out. If you think you can go ahead and try when your next tax year is due. Let us know what happens!


Posted by: forwardone

Although I know this isn`t quite the same thing, but here in the UK we have the Charities Commission, which as the name suggests, has oversight of all charities in England and Wales. They are extremely stringent with their rules about which organizations qualify for charity status.

I`m not sure that the exempt status for individuals personally to avoid paying taxes or National Insurance are the same, if indeed that`s allowed here. But, certainly the fact that an organization, such as a church, is classed as a charity allows it to get donations with very favourable additional payments being received back from the Inland Revenue. Those payments are to give back the income tax that has been paid prior to the donations from the individual being made. Members can set up `covenants` to put the arrangement into force.

Point I`m trying to make is that because it`s a way of getting money back off the government the Inland Revenue is very keen to ensure that the Charities Commission stringently enforces the rules about which organizations qualify or not. The accounting records for example have to be spot on otherwise they`ll come down like a ton of bricks.


Posted by: golddust

Similar regulatory 'mindset' in logic. Anyone who sets their self in a exempt or special tax bracket is subject to more oversite - in the US, the IRS. People who declare themselves "self-employed" and/or claim deductions for a home office are 25% more likely to be audited. I am sure there is additional manpower devoted to scrutinizing those who claim exemptions based on secular positions.
As long as one can show all the proper filings, receipts and expenses respective to their filing status, and have complied with 'other' actions required in their exempt status, there should be no real problems. However, the IRS knows certain directions are available for individuals to turn to for relief from certain taxes, eg SS tax. The test is always whether someone is files in a manner to avoid taxes, (in the taxpayers best interest, and accepted) vs. tax evasion. The latter would be the best way to end up in 'heat' with the IRS.

golddust



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